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Our Plans for New Tiers and Levels

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 8:26 AM

  I feel a Master's ability will out way a Hack or amateur with Master clubs. Who cares about sandbagging? If you don't have talent to play the game with the good gear, then it really doesn't matter.

  I can't wait to see what happens with the new tiers and levels. The speculating crowd may be surprised!

   

  *edit: This is an excerpt from the "Special on Master & Pro clearance sale" mentioned in the WGT news article.

  "Later this month, all of the current "Master" and "Pro" equipment will be replaced by similar equipment based on Levels".

• neildiamond11790 1,115 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 8:55 AM

  Columbia, premium tourneys and match play are the areas where sandbaggers make the most damage.  I will play the best "pro" sandbagger any day in a ready go, I dont think many masters are really worried about them.  But the premium tourney that same "pro" should not be pro, they have the skills to be a master, but are playing other pro's.  Imagine someone as good as bullox having an average of 68 in the pro tier, despite him not playing with master clubs, the guy is still gonna destroy every other pro.  In the premium tourney it would mean he walks away with the real prizes, and in the MPC he is gonna take away everyones credits.   The beauty of Ready Go's is there is no separation of tiers, the downside of RG's is Pro's and Amateurs are playing against masters.

• TarheelsRule 5,566 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 9:22 AM

  Neil is exactly right in terms of where a sandbagger can do their damage.  He can lurk just below the master level and rack up on the premium tournies.  I can't play the ready gos due to my state but that is the places where you don't have to worry about sandbaggers, you just pick what you want to play heads up.  I can't play the match play either but if you play based on your tier, then a sandbagger could do some damage there as well.

  If you had lots of premium tiered tourneys they would win their tier all the time.  If you have ever played in a local club tourney in real golf in which handicaps are used you notice that for example in a two man tourney they generally reduce the handicaps of each player by 20 to 30%.  This has much more impact on a 15 handicap than it does on a 2 handicap but the reason is to level the field.  It still doesn't weed out the players who hack it around to make a 12 handicap a 15 by the time the tourney starts but it makes it a little more difficult for them.

  I guess that the facts are that sandbagging is an issue that has always been a problem in golf and always will be.  If you eliminate tiers and handicaps, then you have people who have no chance and will stop playing.  If you don't then you have to deal with sandbaggers. 

• carman53402 2 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 9:27 AM

  Okay Guys and Gals. While I have been hovering at 69-71 for months the problem here can be solved very easy. I only play free tourneys because i am not good enough to win the others. the bigest gripe for me is players who have the 60 to 65 avg who quit when they have a bad round. Lets make it so if you quit a round you MUST go back and finish the round before you can play again. That may help

• BolloxInBruges 1,389 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 9:33 AM

  Richard4168:

  BolloxInBruges:

  If competent sandbaggers are using the same equip as me, from 2 or 3 teeboxes ahead of me, what chance do I have to win if it is a credit match for example?

  The same advantage as we have now. If we (Master) play an amateur, they tee-off ahead of us right? Like now, we have to rely on our ability to beat them. I say who cares if they have the same equipment, they don't have our abilities. See what I mean?

  Give a Hack a G-10 iron and they won't know what to do with it. What you already know about a G-10 iron will take a Hack month's to figure out, by then, your even better then you were when the Hack started. WGT makes their money on the sale, and everyone's happy.  No?

  Key word here is competent sandbaggers richard.  A player that would be a marginal master is no big deal,  someone that is a decent to good master could be.

• jcs89 172 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 9:35 AM

  Giving hacks and amateurs the ability to drive the ball the same distance as masters is very unrealistic.  I can use Bubba Watson's driver but i still won't come close to his distance.  If WGT wants to stick with making this game as realistic as possible, this definitely needs to be addressed.  The only way it is addressed now is by limiting club availability to certain tiers.  And contrary to what some people want or believe, the best usually win the most.  If you are a pro averaging 70 something, get out and practice instead of complaining about not winning.  Everyone slides a mouse and clicks a mouse the same way and everyone should be on a pretty level playing field. I'm all for having some tournaments tier specific but to segregate the entire population is not the thing to do.  If i go enter a local tournament in real life, chances are i will finish near the bottom of the pack. I should not expect to win and would not say it's unfair because other are better than me. If i want to get better, i need to put in the time.  And with this game, the gap is far smaller between the worst and the best as compared to real life.  It's just a fact of life....the best should win and deserve to win.

  And just as Bollox just said, sandbaggers are no ordinary pro's.  The have the abilities of a seasoned master with scattered scores of a master/hack.  You think you had sandbagging problems before........

  Hank said earlier..."Just a couple of thoughts - perhaps counting more rounds towards one's rating { best 10 of last 20, say instead of last 14} would diminish effects of sandbagging."...I think this is an excellent idea...Having to to post that many "bad" round would definitely help deter bagging.  I'm sure it's quite a bit of work as it is to achieve such an exaggerated average.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 9:54 AM

  The sandbaggers aren't going to be taking on Bollox, but rather fleecing less seasoned players in the low to middle ranks.

  As the gentleman from Chapel Hill pointed out, sandbagging is a problem in RL club tourneys as well, but there you have the weapon of social opprobrium. In the virtual world, technical tools are needed to ferret out these weasels (as it were).

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 10:07 AM

  zagraniczniak:

  opprobrium

  Word of the day.....

  op·pro·bri·um/əˈprōbrēəm/Noun

  1. Harsh criticism or censure.

  2. The public disgrace arising from someone's shameful conduct

• Sastradamus 10 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 3:35 PM

  Just my two cents on the changes:

  I like the idea of changing ranked rounds to tournaments and single play only and counting abandoned rounds as +10 or something similar.  I think for players new to the game this will naturally slow down their progression as you can only do so many tournaments a week (for those of us who live where you can't enter money ones) and give them time to hit the practice rounds and improve their game. This should also help deter sandbaggers as the only way to do so would be by costing themselves chances to win certain tournaments.

  As far as clubs being available by player interaction... I hope this does not weigh credits wagered as a positive criteria as I don't think those of us who live in conservative states should be punished. Heck, the fact I can't enter ready-gos is punishment enough!

  Also, I don't feel players of lower level should be able to purchase the same exact clubs as a legend and tee off from 40 yards closer. The best items should only be available to the top tier otherwise sandbagging will remain an issue as well as duplicate accounts and in a game where players can earn credits neither should exist at all.

  Lastly, perhaps a feature to report suspected sandbaggers would work. I mean if a guy who has an average of 78 happens to always shoot 62 when competing for credits it should be clear he is manipulating his average to hustle others. While sandbaggers do exist in the real world eventually their reputation catches up to them and they lose their action.

  Sorry for the long post.

• tioramon 110 Posts

  Thu, Aug 19 2010 4:14 PM

  Well said , I agree with you.