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Our Plans for New Tiers and Levels

• KingOfTheCourse 419 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 7:22 PM

  AvatarLee:

  It's actually a song in one of the shows my kids watch! LOL

  *edit* Warning! Age appropriate link ^^

  All I can say is WOW lol

• jcs89 172 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 8:06 PM

  I too think it will increase sandbagging(a sandbagging pro will stay a sandbagging pro and only have to compete against legitimate pros in ready go's....a sandbagger's dream!)

  I also think it severely penalizes those who have put time practicing and making their game better.    If i played more in real life, i would get better.  I have a friend who plays more than me in real life and spends more time on improving his game.  He hits the ball straighter and farther than i do. He is not going to let me move up to the red tees and hit just because of this....we basically have the same potential if i were willing to practice more.  

  One unreal aspect of this game is everyone with the same equipment can hit the ball the same distance....regardless of ability.  Everyone on here has the same club head speed. The only way to counter act this is to make higher performing equipment tier specific. Is it realistic to think that an amateur or pro on this game could get the same results in distance  as a master just because he is using the same equipment?  In real life, I could not even come close to hitting a top of the line driver nearly as far as a real pro could.   Maybe introduce better club head speed as a player advances. 

  Everyone playing on WGT has basically the same potential if the really want to spend time practicing. This game does not lend itself to the more physically gifted. The playing field is pretty darn level. Why shouldn't the best players win the most?  A couple of years ago, Tiger was dominating the world of golf.  Would it have been acceptable for some of the tour rookies to complain that he was too good and the PGA should do something to even up the playing field??

  Just my thoughts...sorry if i got off topic.....i very well could be wrong with some of them...thanks for listening...

  jcs89

   

• dorkfeatures 712 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 8:19 PM

  Hi All,

  Well, after reading all the comments so far I thought I would have my turn.

  Firstly I guess I am pretty excited that there is going to be a new system implemented at some stage. I am still like most of you trying to get my head round it - its not quite sunk in yet.

  I make the following points though. 

  • I dont agree with making the game a more level playing field !!  Why would we do that ? The cream always rises to the top. The best always get the rewards, and if Michelson or Woods are winning all the time - so be it. The challenge is for everyone else to get there.
  • Why do we need to increase the number of tiers?  Keep it as it is, but only the Master tier players can compete in tournaments. Lets face it guys - its not that hard to get to Master, and if you dont put in the effort you dont get to advance to the Master tier and you dont get to play in any tournaments. What would happen then? Everybody (if good enough) would end up in the Master tier, and have access to the Master clubs. Dont forget though - having Master clubs means diddly squat, if you cant use them !!
  • Obviously the above is going to impact the bottom line $$$$ initially. So maybe there is a system in place built around your ranking. My ranking is say 68, I can shoot lower sometimes, but rarely do I shot anything above 74 / 76. So - if playing a ranked round and I shoot - say 80- the score doesnt count towards my ranking. ??? Players rounds dont vary that much I dont think. OK maybe you can shoot 9 shots worse one round to the next, but not that often. Thats why I feel an upper limit could be implemented?
  • OR - Remove ALL ranked rounds from the ranking system. Full Stop !! Your ranking would only be made up from tournament play, and you would need to play a certain number of tournaments each year. That will stop the sand-baggers. It would need working up a bit, but that would stop your sand-bagger shooting 63 in a RG and then going back and shooting an 80 or 90 in a ranked round. EASY FIX.
  • Bring in a system whereby you would have to play a certain amount of tournaments per year in order to retain your ranking, and be able to play in tournaments. If you dont play say - 12 tournaments per year, you drop a tier and  would be ineligible to play in any tournaments, until you worked your way back to the Master tier again. Again that might need fleshing out a bit.

  I just dont agree with lower tier players having access to the best clubs, without putting the effort in. Once you work your way up to the Master tier - then you have access to the Master clubs and you play from the Master tees. 

  Why dont WGT have an ideas box where people can input there own personal ideas and if used get a prize for the best idea of the month or whatever?

  Gee -  theres all sorts of stuff in there lol,  some of it looks a bit controversial, and may needs fleshing out a bit,  but....hey, its just some ideas. I just thought I would put them out there.

  Happy hitting

  Doug

   

• danohi50 1,020 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 8:47 PM

  Any time a system changes, cans of worms will be opened. I didnt read every post yet in this thread because some very heated arguments are starting.

  I do appreciate the passion everyone has here.

  Heres something I gathered from reading some of the posts and hopefully I have a good solution that would help prevent finding loopholes to cheat the system.

  A valid concern was sandbagging to stay pro and using master clubs from the pro tees.

  A simple fix to me is to do this.

  If your using pro equipment you play from the pro tees regardless.

  If your playing master tier equipment, then you play from the master tees.

  Ground zero for everyone?  No I think people should be started in the current tiers they are now in with the equipment they have already purchased and importantly, once you have purchased pro or master equipment, you cant be moved back in tier quality.

• austinio 6 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 11:18 PM

  I've seen a lot of discussion in a lot of places about sandbagging - and there is one possible solution that I have not seen discussed anywhere.  Perhaps I have missed it, I've only been around a few weeks, and I'm no expert in handicap systems.  However, it seems to me that a possible solution is simply to change the way the averages are calculated so that averages go down, but rarely go up.  Obviously this is not then an average but a form of handicap, but given that the average only appears to be used to advance tiers (which cannot be reversed), why do we need the average to increase if you start playing worse?  The only advantage that an increasing average has is to allow sandbagging.

  Thinking about the pros and cons of this, we might need to be careful that players don't move up the tiers too quickly, as averages would drop much faster, but certainly in my case, my scores dropped consistently as my game improved.

  Ooops, got to go, baby's awake.

  Sorry for going of topic - the new features sound like fun.  Looking forward to them.

• austinio 6 Posts

  Tue, Aug 10 2010 11:36 PM

  Taking that idea further, we could actually keep the current average as it is, so people can keep track of how well you are currently playing, but calculate a new low score average which takes say your 10 lowest scores of all time and use this average to advance tiers.  This low score average will always drop over time and sandbaggers could not raise it.  We would have to decrease the entry requirements for each tier slightly to balance out the speed at which people advance, but I'd be interested to hear reasons why this would not work.  Is there anyone other than sandbaggers that this would disadvantage?

  I suppose the good pros who are currently borderline masters and remain pro without sandbagging because they are right on the line would have fewer chances to win pro tournaments before they are bumped up to master.  But I fit that category, and I am looking forward to the challenge of moving up.

   

   

• showtime73 114 Posts

  Wed, Aug 11 2010 12:20 AM

  i think wgt is smart enough to hand pick tier changes,so to speak..if some1 is shooting a few great scores,then a crazy high score,it should be picked up on..2 point variance or so could tell to start ..you can get lucky and shoot a 58-28..its not luck if you do it a bunch of times- i guess is my point..if your good your good,..an avg person on this site will have a 2-2 and a half variance..u cant hide that and sandbag at the same time if monitored..

• eternalspirit 255 Posts

  Wed, Aug 11 2010 1:46 AM

   

  WGTalex:

   A player who never develops all the skills necessary to reach the Master Tier will still be able to gain access to advanced equipment if they achieve enough experience Levels.

  why?

  if anyone reading this cant see this is a sandbaggers dream, read the meaning of sandbagging..... "downplay one's ability (towards others) in a game in order to deceive, as in gambling"

  i dont play much but when i do i Avg between 59-63. i dont see how someone who rattles of 50 ranked rounds in a week with an avg of 85-90 is able to access the same equipment as me who plays maybe 10 ranked rounds a week because they have gained experience points

  what is the reward for the top players who shoot low scores but don't gain much experience points because they play less ? please answer this

  WGTalex:

  As in real life, you may never play as well as a real pro, but that doesn’t mean you can’t buy the same equipment they’re using. However, also in real life, some golf equipment will continue to be designed for beginners and other for experts, in terms of factors like swing meter speed and forgiveness.

  I'm surprised this statement has come from WGT. how silly. if i have the same equipment as mickleson will i have the same precision, spin rating, accuracy, forgivness and swing meter speed as mickleson? no! this is a computer game.

  it real life it comes down to a players ability to use the equipment and at current WGT doesnt have enough variety in shot setup to implement this new system, all we have is aim, litlle spin and a drag and click swing meter which is the same for anyone who uses the same equipment. and the sandbaggers will have a 30-80yrd advantage.

  WGTalex:

  We are not planning to make changes to any of the golf equipment that players have previously won or purchased. Everything that was in your WGT bag will still be there, with the same name, and perform the same as it did before. After the change, you would still be able to sell back any equipment to the Pro Shop for credits, but not be able to purchase the older equipment in the Pro Shop.

  what about when i run out of my GI-SD balls? should i buy 100 sleeves now before the new update? how much will i have to play to be able to buy these balls if

  WGTalex:

  we’re considering having everyone start at the same place, Level 0. Those who spend time on WGT will be able to level up fairly quickly.

  please answer or comment

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Wed, Aug 11 2010 4:40 AM

  showtime73:

  i think wgt is smart enough to hand pick tier changes,so to speak..if some1 is shooting a few great scores,then a crazy high score,it should be picked up on..2 point variance or so

  I agree. Sandbagging is something that will always take place at WGT. The only way to combat it, is to monitor it. Unless someone has a better idea how to deal with, or catch a sandbagger.

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Wed, Aug 11 2010 5:33 AM

  Richard4168:

  Unless someone has a better idea how to deal with, or catch a sandbagger.

  Maybe capping ranked scores at 5 strokes (per 18 holes) above a current players average.  So say a 68 Avg. sandbagger who tries to raise their average by shooting a 45 on 9 holes of Bethpage would actually have that score capped at 36.5 (68/2 + 2.5 strokes) as it applies to his/her average.  They would still see the 45 in the score history but it would not impact the average in the way they wanted it to.  This still allows for variability in averages, just not drastic changes.

  The 5 strokes is just a ballpark, it could be any number, but I really think that would curb the sandbagging.