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WGT's new method of determinng scoring avg...

• BubbaCrusher007 1,567 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 12:53 PM

  Yes that makes sense, I'm understanding this a little better now. Thank you so much for the info.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 1:17 PM

  AceHoler26:

  If you don't want "paper Tour Legends", the solution is simple. 

   

  This
  is a computer program and can be programmed to use any data available.
  WGT can display an "aggregate scoring average" of a player while keeping
  their stroke play only average behind the scenes(or they could display
  that as well).  Legends can only "tier up" using the stroke play only
  average that WGT is keeping track of.  However, if they displayed
  "aggregate" average it would show other players that Mr Sandbagger is
  really playing at a Tour Legend level based on challenge matches.

  At which point average Stroke play converts to an almost gimme win over another in MPC I ain't gonna argue here.  I am sure people can produce stats all day long on it, and obviously a 71 player versus a 59 player would be extreme, and 14 times out 15 the smart money would only be one place only.

  EDIT:

  With a true playing average of 71 you may be surprised how close things get, more often, if you could get that down to say 64. It's one reason why Ryder cups don't go with stroke play form necessarily.  Again no disrespect but a Legend playing average of 71 is very low end, and so personally I would be looking for game improvement harder for this one unfair as it is.

  Regardless, all Sandy would do is play mates / their other accounts and run an artificial second handicap under the one you now proposed....crafty little fellows, no programming required, just money swap and no different transparency wise to now. Match record play is there to check anyway etc...

  Separately even if they got pushed up because of overall prize amount it would destroy the integrity of TL, and push the problem only to there, and so it's also pragmatic reasoning all round to. 

  There are loads of threads on sandbagging which I agree with, and seemingly progress is at standstill on those. I would like more done (resources used) against Sandy as would many.  I always suspect most of the sandbagging is done below Legend anyway although IF you are getting fleeced by many that you look at later having a 69+ average maybe this is a new one, but in Legend tier a playing average of 71 is extreme..........

  Anti Sandbagging ideas are always welcome, but his one would just looks looks to easy to circumnavigate, and so I think the player beware sign needs to be mentally up, no change needed!

• Jayne27 582 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 2:02 PM

  AceHoler26:

  So on average he records 5 or 6 birdies
  for 9 holes while I record 1.  Only there is no way for me to know that.

  Of course there is a way of you knowing, you simply check his match play record.

• sweetspott 26,443 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 2:11 PM

  IMO the only way not to get hosed by a Troll sandbagger is to play the challenge rounds off your friends list, players you know and the scores they shoot. You may not have lots of players to choose from or are willing gamble $, but its a safe play till WGT gets a better method to spot them D-bags. Or WGT could add a dispute button for times like this. BTW great post   

• AceHoler26 347 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 2:21 PM

  Jayne27:

  AceHoler26:

  So on average he records 5 or 6 birdies
  for 9 holes while I record 1.  Only there is no way for me to know that.

  Of course there is a way of you knowing, you simply check his match play record.

  Do you seriously think a SERIOUS sandbagger would not manipulate
  that as well ?  Someone who is raking in credits in challenge
  matches will do everything they can to make sure the other players
  are buffaloed.

  Once he sets his stroke play average at say 71, he doesn't have
  to play stroke play anymore.  He can then just do challenge match
  play and regular match play.  And when no credits are up for grabs
  he can just throw those matches.  Making it look like his match
  play record is .500 or worse.

  What is wrong with showing 2 scores ? Aggregate score and stroke
  play only score ?  The information is there, what's the harm of
  showing it ?  The "tiering up" to Tour Legend can be exactly as
  it is now, stroke play average only.  Calculating and showing
  the aggregate score will only let other players know how Mr
  Sandbagger is doing in challenge matches.  What's wrong with
  more information instead of less ? Thus making it far more
  difficult for Mr Sandbagger.

  How about adding credits that are won in challenge matches to
  career earnings ?  Then if someone sees a match play record
  around .500 and a stroke play average of 71 yet sees that Mr
  Sandbagger's career earnings are in the order of 4000.00, that
  would tell you something.

  Or how about showing won/loss record in Challege matches where Mr Sandbagger will not throw matches because he would lose credits ?

  WGT says they are serious about stopping sandbagger's.

  Well if they are, then the more info they can provide, the better.

• AceHoler26 347 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 2:33 PM

  Seriously Jim....what is the problem you have with giving more information to the players ?  That would not affect the way people make it to TL in the least.

  Any information used for display does not have to be used in the "tier" calculation.  Which part of that do you not understand ?

  As for sandbagging at lower tiers, that can only happen for a short time, because average on those tiers includes how they are doing in match play against better players.  And the extra information would help everyone in those tiers spot Mr Sandbagger as well.

  I don't get you....none of this would affect TL status.  It only would make it harder to sandbag and would be easy to program.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 2:37 PM

  AceHoler26:

  what is the problem you have with giving more information to the players ? 

  Where did I say that?? EDIT - context please!

  AceHoler26:

  That would not affect the way people make it to TL in the least.

  AceHoler26:

  Any information used for display does not have to be used in the "tier" calculation.  Which part of that do you not understand ?

  I said that was separate and an even if...EDIT : You miss the point....

  AceHoler26:

  It only would make it harder to sandbag and would be easy to program.

  For the reasons I went on to say Sandy would be able to manipulate that information rendering it useless is what I said. I am against sanbagging crap as much as anyone I just don't see this one working!

  EDIT: As stated above and mine you can check out score history which should obvioulsy include earnings.  

  IF it's not suitably crap or HUGE money just run?  I must admit when you said many look to play MPC I assumed you were an ardent fan user.  I said I never thought many looked to do it these days and was assuming some although many in here have said that.

   With career earnings of $8.25 you are either thinking of starting it, just started and got burnt alive or have just had an awful run since dot. A true playing average of 71 is extreme, no disrespect, and MPC will be hard in Legend tier. 

  Your current Legend record of 37 - 56 against is more in line with your 71 average anyway.  In fact you are doing remarkably well in Legend tier with your stroke average, no overt signs of meeting sandbaggers at all. Most are just better than you in Legend tier. Easy prey in Legend tier is thankfully not bountiful.

  Respectfully and only as it is, your play is poor for Legend tier. In your case I would avoid any one with a half good average, any kind of earnings or any record of winning regardless of anything else, and work on my game. Moreover, your proposed system would be as open to manipulation as the current one for any one else to.

• DAZZA501 5,972 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 4:42 PM

  A legend beating another legend will not effect averages. Only if you beat someone of a higher tier.

  As for legends with 70 averages being called a sandbagger, that's ridiculous. A legend is a legend regardless of averages and you should expect a tough match.

• alosso 21,083 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 11:40 PM

  DAZZA501:

  A legend beating another legend will not effect averages. Only if you beat someone of a higher tier.

  This anti-sandbagging measure does only work for players below Legend tier. Legends' average and tiering apparently is only affected by their ranked rounds on Par70 to Par72 courses.

• MBaggese 15,368 Posts

  Mon, Sep 2 2013 11:50 PM

  AceHoler26:

  Result: Mr Honesty was just fleeced out of 500 credits by Mr Sandbagger.

     Does that make sense ?  It does to me.

  No...Mr Honesty was looking for easy pickings, and got picked.

   

  Mr honesty is gonna be another whiner on the forum, all the while he'd been picking and choosing "high average players" who he was pretty sure he could beat...then got his ass handed to him.

   

  Anything goes in MPC...deal with it, or don't play.