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Punish Quitters

Wed, Jul 25 2012 9:56 AM (109 replies)
  • EllisSpice
    871 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:12 AM

    Don't you go mentioning it either Faterson just because I asked the others to stop.

    NOBODY bring the topic up, and the topic will go away. OK? If you want to talk about 'that' topic, do it in another thread and don't derail someone else's!

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:17 AM

    You're correct, Ellis. (I only wanted to clarify that I'm not dodging that question.)

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:39 AM

    andyson:
    I find it incoherent that you don't think single players left alone after everyone else quit is the biggest cause of quitter posts.

    I never said that. I said that I am guessing this is a very low %age of the overall number of multi-player games. NO ONE except for wgt knows these numbers, and they are most likely not tracking them, as unfortunate as that is.

    andyson:
    This is your typical tactic to try and put the blame on someone else after you derailed it by going off topic with the Faterson/Lindsay multiple ID on another site attack.
     

    You obviously missed the fact that these comments were made only AFTER the initial post of F-man; in reaction to his off-handed tactics. 'nuf said

    And yes, I'll try to be more cautious in my exchanges with him. but let it also be known, I have a very short fuse with this member based on his past posts and exchanges with me. I'll be cordial until I am attacked, which is exactly what happened here; again.

    andyson:
    If this thread gets locked its on you VHL.

    It would be better to see inappropriate posts modified or removed, then we would all see much more clearly who is following WGT tos. I'm betting my posts aren;t the problem.

    andyson:
    There are many similarities between what Faterson espouses to end quitting and what you believe.

    Not under the current system. If, however, wgt implemented the option to resume all multi-player games (like they do with MPC matches), than it becomes a lot easier, and we would probably be on the same page. Short of that happening, our approaches to a solution are polar opposites. I am against any reputation feature that is game related, as well as any punishment for dropping games, based solely on the incredible amount of man-hours it would take to handle all of the follow up complaints/requests. Those features are valuable for forum threads, and nothing else.

    If they implement the option to resume the game in multi player mode, it becomes VERY easy, as then a denial to resume means a choice to forfeit by the player, and there are no excuses that it was a game issue, power outage, etc. And still there will be cases where a player may have to finish as a solo, that problem will never go away. But it is then an option, finish solo, or have it affect your average.

    andyson:
    There is probably a common ground to be found if you'd be more open minded.

    I would challenge you to find anyone more open minded than I. That portion of my education was very important to me, and it is a lesson I live by to this day. You might wish to inquire with our children, who all have custom self-painted walls in their rooms, as to how open minded I am.

     

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:42 AM

    Faterson:

    Absolutely, Ellis and Andy, you're correct.    (As to DaveLindsay, I repeat for the umpteenth time that Faterson obviously is not DaveLindsay; it can't get any clearer than that, can it?)   

    Quite the opposite.

    This is another clever way of not answering the question. You are not stating that you don't use both alias, you are manipulating your statement to say that they are two unique alias's, under the guise that you are not using them both, without actually answering.

    Will you put it all to rest, and claim here on this public thread that you have NEVER posted anything on the wgtls threads using the DaveLindsay alias?

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:44 AM

    EllisSpice:
    And Faterson and VHL, can't you just agree to disagree? You have 2 different opinions, and neither is going to change theirs. Leave it at that, OK?

    I am already there Ellis, and have been for some time. You might wish to take a gander at my wall/blog for a little history on my attempt to rectify this situation, and how it was handled on the other end. You can tell me who has accepted our differences, and who has not.

    What I will not stand, is to be called out or be called names, while F-man tries to make his point louder than everyone else.

  • Snaike
    3,678 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 10:55 AM

    VanHalenLover:
    This is another clever way of not answering the question. You are not stating that you don't use both alias, you are manipulating your statement to say that they are two unique alias's, under the guise that you are not using them both, without actually answering.
    I was wondering when someone would get to this point.

    If I were a betting man, and I'll give you 20:1 that I'm not, I willing to bet that there will be no truthful response to the direct question.  Probably more obfuscations and misdirections, I would imagine.

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 11:01 AM

    YankeeJim:
    You have to admit, he has an answer for everything. 

    Which one?

    YankeeJim:
    If I am last man standing in a match I wanted to play with someone else I'll write that round off and go get another. For this I should be whacked? I don't think so.

    Exactly.

    The penalty falls on the quitter, irregardless of the disconnection reason IMO. The chances someone quits due to accidents, or reasons beyond their control, are much less than someone quitting to save an average, or some game related reason. That's a fact. It's been documented in these forums to many times. Just read any one of the quitting threads. I don't see members writing about why they disconnected like, because their boss called, or their kid was puking. Come on! The likely stories could be never ending.

    If you quit a match, or get disconnected, for whatever reason, the match became a forfeited match. It certainly didn't go the distance to determine a specific winner. There's no fault on the person who did not disconnect. WGT gives you 5 minutes to reconnect. It becomes never-ending with back and forth reasons as to why someone disconnected. There's has to be some rule to disconnecting, or quitting by a member, no matter what the cause. If members want to site the dis-connector as the victim, then so be it. They got disconnected, it's a chance you take as a player at WGT.

    Play multi-player rounds with your friends, or the members you know who won't quit. Don't pick-up random multi-player games. Everyone knows the quitting reputation on those types of matches. It's the only option we have at the moment. I don't see anything happening with the quitting issue at WGT this year.

    Sky, it would be nice to roll all the quitting threads into one central thread though.

  • Snaike
    3,678 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 11:04 AM

    Richard4168:
    Sky, it would be nice to roll all the quitting threads into one central thread though.

    Maybe a separate forum, Richard.. one thread wouldn't last a day without getting locked.  =)

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 11:10 AM

    Snaike:

    Richard4168:
    Sky, it would be nice to roll all the quitting threads into one central thread though.

    Maybe a separate forum, Richard.. one thread wouldn't last a day without getting locked.  =)

    THAT, is most likely the most accurate statement made all day in any of these threads, lol.

  • CharlemagneRH
    1,054 Posts
    Tue, Aug 31 2010 11:45 AM

    VanHalenLover:
    ie. Many here have professed a desire not to continue in solo mode, even after a 'valid' disconnect (like the game client crashing). This forces them to continue in solo mode, or suffer a reputation drop.

    Under my little system, all they'd have to do is finish out the hole they're currently on, assuming they've taken their drive.  Having to finish out one hole, once or twice a month, is a small price to pay to stop quitters.

    VanHalenLover:
    I'm not worried about CPU load here, I'm concerned about the flood of requests WGT will be inundated with. 'please restore my reputation to xx%, my disconnect on mm/dd was not my fault! I don't like the idea of a reputation feature OR a punishable average connected to dropped rounds for the same reasons. Removing the quit option is a much more efficient and labor free method that could be implemented TODAY.

    It wouldn't be a problem at all because, once again, they can just finish out the hole in single-player, and then they can quit out with no adverse effects on their score.

    If anyone still complained, WGT should just ignore all complaints on the matter, which should be easy because they are already quite adept at ignoring illegitimate, stupid complaints.

    VanHalenLover:
    CharlemagneRH:
    It's not time-efficient to sandbag in multiplayer rounds, and it messes up your reputation on top of that.

    Players manipulate ANY ranked rounds, simple fact. The fact that it isn't time efficient doesn't stop it from happening.

    My system most certainly doesn't facilitate sandbagging, nor was it created to put an end to sandbagging, so it simply isn't a valid criticism of the system.  My system was designed to make quitters unable to avoid having bad rounds being included in their averages... which is an entirely different issue than sandbagging.

    Oh, and you will pretty much never put an end to sandbagging because I can tell you right now that when I'm in one of those 30-second shot clock games, my score on 9 holes goes up about five strokes.  All you'd have to do is play a few of those games, and if anyone asked you about it, you could just say, "I cannot deal with the 30-second shot clock, but it's fun to try."

    VanHalenLover:
    CharlemagneRH:
    Even if you're doing single-player ranked rounds, it's not time-efficient to exit to the mainmenu, start a new game again, and then wait for the course to load when you can just pull out your putter and putt the ball 1-2 ft once or twice to get the same effect.

    This is exactly why removing the 'quit/end round' option is perfect. Once the option to quit is gone, players will no longer quit as there is no way out of the round. Forcing a manipulator to mark the entire score every time will make it easier to track scoring patterns, and to identify sandbaggers.

    That said, if WGT had an option for each player to RESUME a multi-player round in multi-mode, I'd be all for punishing someone who chooses not to continue. Until then, I am not convinced that any punishment system will work. Time will tell.

    Allowing people to resume the round in multi-player mode would be a reasonable way of solving the problem... won't get any complaints about that from me... both ways are just fine for solving the problem of quitting.

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