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Too much luck required at Kiawah

Sat, Jul 5 2014 7:13 AM (30 replies)
  • SwingingRoofer
    456 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 6:15 AM

    someone always gotta cry about something cause they playing bad getting sick of them people myself

  • derekortt
    668 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 8:14 AM

    talk to me sr, when you play half as well as I do

  • DDRoss1
    1,809 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 8:45 AM

    Love the course, but there are some putts that are almost unreadable...but you know no game is perfect, and my best round there is only a 60 there but i will take it..as there are some holes if you dont know where to land the ball, ur screwed, not the courses fault, my own for not keeping notes LMAO

  • CerinoDevoti
    3,232 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 8:46 AM

    derekortt:

    alosso:

    Keep in mind that the second pin set @KIA was carved out of excess photographs. Back then they intended only one location per green.

    And, what's the problem? I've always been able to line up my putts in reverse view. Shooting this way needs some brainwork - hope that nobody is surcharged by that.

     

    The problem is , some 5 footers, especially on holes 1, 3, 5 and sometimes 6 are lined up at 45 degree or worse angles. I have to rotate my laptop itself to read the greens

     

    I know exactly what putts you're talking about. I try to hit my approaches to the camera angle instead of the best place for an easy putt. I end up with much more breaking putts but I can at least use a much straighter view instead of the 45 degree angles. On the new(back) pin at 15. I try to be right of the hole and catch the fringe. It triggers a much better camera view than being on the green. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of trial and pain to find these views.

    GL

  • jsweetcr
    1,209 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 9:33 AM

    Couldn't you also just take notes when you land x feet from the hole and have this funny camera angle if you put it this far from hole and hit it this hard it ends up here or there, until you know how far out to put it with the funny angles to make it.

    I personally don't mind Kiawah, but don't love it either. I will play it in free tourneys, but tend to shy away from it if I have to wager my own credits to play it. A lot of players have it down really good so you have to shoot very well to double your credits or better.

    No doubt you are a great player Derek, but just think the thread came of the wrong way. You were suggesting that WGT take this fine course away from the hundreds of us that play it, oopps, i mean hundreds of thousands of us(including multis), that play it on a daily basis, just cuz there are a few camera angles tht suck. Not one person can argue those angles don't suck, however, it was one of the earlier courses that was developed and maybe WGT just didn't have the time or resources to get all the pictures they needed for all the pin placements especially consideing all the tall weed, sand and water areas on it.

    My suggestion is to just stay away from it in RGs, or at the very least tread carefully and just hope over muultiple rounds of RGs at kiawah you will be ahead of the game, even tho you might lose some here and there.

     

  • andwhy67
    2,816 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 2:19 PM

    lol 

    derekortt:

    talk to me sr, when you play half as well as I do

     

     

  • alanti
    10,564 Posts
    Sun, Dec 29 2013 5:26 PM

    andyson:
    IMO, WGT made a herculean effort to deliver on their promise of 2nd pins on Kiawah.  Are the views all perfect?  No.  Are having 2nd pins with some lousy views better than no 2nd pins?  You betcha!

    Good research Andyson and explains why some view are worse than others.

    Kiawah is only one of 2 courses on WGT I have played so agree that having a lousy read is preferable to not having a  second  pin location.. The greens were difficult to read by memory in real life, so is quite apt IMO lol

    That said I would like multiple pin positions on all courses and implemented a lot faster than we currently get. Yes it is a lot of work but what do the programmers do half the year?

    Bugs remain and we have only get the one new course per year in the last couple of years.

    To me it appears that new equipment (which generates $$$$) takes priority over offering the end users more choice that does not directly generate the extra revenue. Short sighted perhaps, as I personally tend to play a lot less.

     

  • MichaelStroke
    2,066 Posts
    Mon, Dec 30 2013 8:48 AM

    I don't know if I'd say "luck", but Kiawah does require more practice and perception than other greens normally considered easy.

  • saltiresfan
    2,266 Posts
    Mon, Dec 30 2013 10:19 AM

    The camera position isn't the biggest problem at Kiawah; it's the putts not breaking as the read shows. False breaks etc are a total nightmare.

    I used to love playing Kiawah but once I worked out how to putt I realised that I can't stand it. Total lottery.

  • Willsstrs
    632 Posts
    Tue, Dec 31 2013 1:06 PM

    saltiresfan:

    The camera position isn't the biggest problem at Kiawah; it's the putts not breaking as the read shows. False breaks etc are a total nightmare.

    I used to love playing Kiawah but once I worked out how to putt I realised that I can't stand it. Total lottery.

    I will agree with everyone that the views especially for example on the back pin on 15 are definitely ideal. 

    However, I have discovered a way around this. It is a little putting tip/thing that I came up with while playing on Kiawah and having a bad day. Now while I will admit that I am no god at this game, I think I have come up with something that will really help EVERYONE including these 55- avg TL gods at reading putts having to do with false break.

    Now first (this one is an old tip mainly for newer players) make sure you are reading iffy putts moving your wedge around because it shows the break everywhere, not just where the lines are. This will show you everything so that you know everything about the break of the putt.

    Here comes the new part that I came up with. I noticed in my round at Kiawah that all of the "false break" putts were putts on bad angles, usually with some uphill/downhill movement. So it got me thinking, and I tested my hypothesis in a few practice rounds, mainly on Olympic because there are a lot of consistently sloped but hard sloping greens. I came to the realization that the green grid is showing you the slope of the green on the angle of the boxes, not necessarily on the angle of the camera.

    This is why the odd camera angles create weird breaks. While the camera angle is off, the grid stays in line. The closer to direct the camera angle is, the ball would be closer to the line on the grid that connects with the hole. However, this is usually off, so the line of the putt is not usually in line with the grid. So what I did was I visualized the green as a 3D object with the beads showing low points. So if the putt is shown by the grid to be straight downhill, I visualize it as a plane sloping down toward me from the back view. Now if the camera angle was right on, the ball right next to the line I was talking about earlier, it would in fact be a straight downhill putt. But if the ball (from the back view) is to the left of the center line, the magic line we'll call it, it would not be a straight downhill to the hole, but rather straight downhill to a point to the left of the hole. Therefore, if the green is visualized as such, it can be deduced that the putt will in fact be a left to right putt, since the ball needs to be heading where its combination of the vector of velocity and gravity pulling it toward the lowest point, down the sharpest slope, will bring its path over the location of the hole. Visualize on the computer screen. Even though it is vertical, it can still serve the same purpose. Pretend the hole is at the bottom of the screen, right in the center. Now visualize if you had a ball, and you dropped it from the top center of the screen. It would go in. If you took the ball and moved it to the left corner of the screen and dropped it, it would miss by the half width of the screen. While this is an extreme case with infinite downslope and moving the ball over where it is almost 45 degrees off from straight up, the same concept is applied, just it is much easier to visualize. If you would want that ball to get to the bottom center of the screen from the top left corner, you would need to put some force on it to the right while dropping it. This is the same as a putt shown as downhill left to right from the behind view. This is because onced moved over, the downhill straight shown putt becomes a downhill left to right. So then if the ball is moved over to the right side of the screen, it becomes a downhill right to left putt. And all of this can just be applied vice-versa to uphill putts (ball on left side of the screen, more right to left; ball on right side of screen, more left to right).

    However in this game in most cases, the up/downhill slope isn't that much, and the camera angle isn't off by a crazy amount, so the amount the ball is influenced by this effect is smaller, but still enough to make a putt even as short as 4 feet miss. Once I started taking this into account I started to make many, many more putts, especially from the 6-15 foot range. Also, this effect is not usually enough to reverse a significant (1/2 cup per 5 ft) break, but can reduce/accentuate it by a noticeable amount (which takes lots of practice to be able to judge). However, it does quite often minimize/eliminate/reverse very small breaks. For example today I had a putt from behind and right of the hole of about 12 feet on RSG 17 downhill 2 inches where the dots showed for about 3/4-1 cup of break left to right. However the camera angle was off and the ball was on the right side of this magic line by a significant amount. So I ended up with the judgement that it was in fact a dead straight putt. So I played it dead straight (btw the wind was straight behind me at 11 mph, an insignificant factor to the line) and dinged it, and it went dead straight, right in the middle of the hole. So this whole crazy rant I went on isn't complete bs lol. But it really does take lots of practice, I've been working on my judgement on it for probably 3 months (not including my hiatus) and it still needs a bit of refinement. But, those crazy unpredictable downhill sidehill 8 footers with weird camera angles do seem to be going in a lot lol!

    Now after finishing my crazy whatever you want to call this, I've realized that this probably has more purpose in game tips, but I guess it's kind of relevant...after all Kiawah with awful camera angles is pretty much the #1 place this is needed lol...

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