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A Simple Handicap Formula

• cobaltm 3,961 Posts

  Tue, Jan 14 2014 9:16 PM

  DaddysKat:

  Dubfore:

  The formula for the handicaps is based on 60 being the entry to Tour Legend tier, that is the scratch score.

  Pretty good idea ... the one issue I can see is this part of the formula:

  Dubfore:

  Players average over 5 matches = 67 - minus1= 66  

                                                                      Handicap    -6 

   

  Players average over 5 matches = 59 -1  =58

   

                                                 Handicap              +2

  The -1 seems to reward the lower handicap players.  How about using a straight percentage instead (say 96% like the USGA's GHIN system).  

       So 67 * 96% = 64.3 (or a -4.3) and

       59 * 96% = 56.64 (or +3.3).  

  Using a fixed number on the handicap rewards the lower "handicaps".  It would be nice if you could take the last 20 scores posted and use the best 10 to determine the average.  That would give you a more accurate representation.

  Got a website?  Have your CC members record their scores!

  All of this is awesome stuff AND probably very accurate compared to the -1 method BUT....the idea of the -1 is simple....KISS. Keep it Simple Stupid.  It is easy to maintain...accurate enough for "friendly club competition" and it gives the not so blessed a fighting chance to win once in awhile.  As for what rounds should count....we have 4 Player of the Month rounds that I use because frankly, I don't want to do averages any more than that. Again, KISS.

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Tue, Jan 14 2014 10:38 PM

  cobaltm:

  All of this is awesome stuff AND probably very accurate compared to the -1 method BUT....the idea of the -1 is simple....KISS.

  I'm guessing you're one of the lower handicap players ... IRL, I hate giving away strokes to the higher handicap players too!  

  There's simple and there's fair ... your simple is giving the lower average players an advantage.  

• Dubfore 4,350 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 3:27 AM

  ...and fair play is good sport, simple!  :-)

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 6:03 AM

  DaddysKat:

  I'm guessing you're one of the lower handicap players

  No, he's not.

  DaddysKat:

  your simple is giving the lower average players an advantage.  

  Being that he's not one of those lower average types, this implication goes away.

  His system accomplishes what he set out to do and that's to give everyone a decent chance. If someone is playing the system like this in a CC then there's a bigger problem in the henhouse.

  FWIW, Cobalt does everything longhand-no spreadsheet or anything, that's just his way.

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 10:24 AM

  Hey YJ,

  We got off on the wrong foot long ago.  My message wasn't meant as a slam on Cobalt ... merely a reply to the "K.I.S.S.".

  I'm all for K.I.S.S.  Where I get lost is the OP says to take an average of the player's last 5 scores (doing math ... add 5 scores ... if 9 hole, add the score twice ... then divide said sum by 5 to get the average.  Now that you're doing this manually with a calculator ... what's the difference between clicking the multiply button ("*", entering ".96" and pressing the "=" button over entering "-", "1", "="?  Two keystrokes?)  It's pretty much the same thing.  I really don't see how two keystrokes elevates the difficulty of said calculation.

  I just wish there was a way to easily obtain each member's last 20 scores via computer. Calculating a player's handicap based on the last 5, 10, 20, or best 10 from the last 20 is a difficult endeavor, and I applaud Cobalt for putting forth the effort, since you have to go to each member's profile and click "Scoring History" to obtain this info.

  FWIW, I've been working with 1i to get my tourney manager spreadsheet to work with your CC.  While it was a challenge, I'm guessing it more-than-likely was a huge waste of my time!  

  Finally, a few months ago, I was invited to join Cosa Nostra CC.  Since you and I have our issues, I felt it best to decline.

  Best to you YJ!  You truly are a great contributor to the forums, and I totally respect your input.

  Kat ♥

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 10:48 AM

  DaddysKat:

  since you have to go to each member's profile and click "Scoring History" to obtain this info.

  He uses CC tournaments for his scores and all he needs to do is follow the leaderboard.

    No wrong foot anywhere, K, wasn't aware there was. Yer still on the friends list.  ;-)

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 12:42 PM

  YankeeJim:

  DaddysKat:

  since you have to go to each member's profile and click "Scoring History" to obtain this info.

  He uses CC tournaments for his scores and all he needs to do is follow the leaderboard.

  I'm now extremely confused, YJ.  If the handicap is set at the completion of the tourney, it wouldn't pay to win.  

  Hopefully, the handicap is set prior to the beginning of a tourney.  I'll use your Oakmont 8 game tourney as an example.  Here's the outcome, based on the leaderboard:

   

  Rank	Player Name	Hcp (from Avg)	Total Gross	Hcp (from Trny)	Total Net (Avg)	Total Net (Trny)
  1	CussdaProAm	1	230	(3)	226	242
  2	daffyd	2	246	2	238	238
  3	PomsDeuce	5	262	6	242	238
  4	mojito	3	260	5	248	240
  4	bentnose	1	252	3	248	240
  6	grunt	5	270	8	250	238
  7	ystagnant	0	253	3	253	241
  8	ShortIron	5	274	9	254	238
  9	Tortoise	(3)	243	1	255	239
  10	Paul	4	272	8	256	240
  11	SoakItUp	(2)	250	3	258	238
  12	Blue	2	267	7	259	239
  12	PoohHax	(2)	251	3	259	239
  12	Vurrp	(5)	239	0	259	239
  15	losses	(1)	256	4	260	240
  16	SpankieTim	0	265	6	265	241
  17	whun	(3)	254	4	266	238
  18	Tony	(1)	263	6	267	239
  19	Criminal	(1)	276	9	280	240

  (I've changed the player names to protect the innocent).  Now, if the handicaps are static prior to the beginning of the tourney (sorted this way in this example), CussdaProAM wins.  If the handicap is created after the tourney is complete, Cuss loses and there are tons of ties for 1st place.  

  As you can see by the above example, a preset handicap set prior to the beginning of the tourney is the best way to go.  Doing a dynamic handicap based on the tourney scores, it simply doesn't pay to win!

• Dubfore 4,350 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 1:58 PM

  Owners should be able to trust their members. So on that basis, I will be asking all the members who want to play in credit tournaments, to calculate their own handicaps.

  If the USGA GHIN system works, why do something different?

  Here's what I've got so far, but only based on five credit tournaments.

   

  The 96% method in the USGA's GHIN system is the most accurate handicap formula.

  Using the 60 as the scratch guide.  How to calculate: 

  350   Div  by  5 = 70.0 x 96  = 6720  Convert to 67.2     (60) = 67   H/cap -7

  322   Div  by  5 = 64.4 x 96  = 6182  Convert to 61.8     (60) = 62   H/cap -2

                                                                                                         Scr.      H/cap

  Dubfore            350   Div   by   5 = 70.0  @  96%  =    67.2    (60)   =  -7

  Kitin                   322   Div   by   5 = 64.4  @  96%  =   61.8    (60)   =   -2 

  Scarecrow       327   Div   by   5  = 65.4  @  96%  =   62.7   (60)   =   -3

  Cholotech        350   Div   by   5  = 70.0  @  96%  =    67.2   (60)   =  -7

  AndyChalot      337   Div   by  5  =  67.4  @  96%  =    64.7   (60)   =  -5  

  BShepherd9    337   Div   by  5  =  67.4  @  96%  =    64.7   (60)   =  -5  

   

  I haven't thought this out fully yet, but I will be grade grouping the players (A,B,and C) according to their handicaps for entering into same grade credit tournaments. In the event of a tie, the WGT method for handling ties will decide the winners.

  The last five credit playing 18 hole cards to start with, then the GHIN system, but only half the amount of cards to count, the last 10, and using the best 5 of those. I'll see how that goes and tweek if needed. Start of each month for handicap reviews. 

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 2:30 PM

  Dubfore:

  If the USGA GHIN system works, why do something different?

  GHIN uses the last 20 scores.  From those last 20 scores, the best 10 scores are taken and averaged, then 96% of that average is used to determine a player's handicap.

  On the 1st and the 15th of every month, the player's handicap is revised, so if a player is playing better than their handicap, their handicap will go down, and if a player is not playing to their handicap, it is possible for their handicap to go up (if the higher scores replace enough of the lower scores).

  You may want to make sure the players revise their handicaps at least twice a month, to reflect their current "trend".

• Dubfore 4,350 Posts

  Wed, Jan 15 2014 3:15 PM

  I'm going to work off the last five to get it started, then use half (10 and 5) the amount of tournaments GHIN uses.  Once a month at start of each calendar month might be sufficient.  I'll see how it goes and tweek it if necessary.