Forums

Handicap Program - requesting suggestions and info

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 1:28 PM

  Hi all,

  I'm currently working on a spreadsheet that will calculate handicaps for country clubs. The theory - copy the player's scoring history to the clipboard, run the program and obtain the last 20 "Front 9", "Back 9" or "Full 18" scores.  It will only obtain the last 20 scores posted from the data in the clipboard, and from there obtain the best 10 scores.  Nine hole scores will be changed to 18 hole scores for average computation.  You can select to subtract a number from the average or multiply the average by a percentage to determine the "Adjusted Average" and the Player's handicap. 

  Now here's where it gets tricky.  If everyone was a legend or tour legend, having the "Par" value would be easy.  A couple CC owners use the number 60 for tour legends (the # needed to advance to tour legend).  Since I'm coding and not wishing to do the research, can I get one of you wonderful stats people to provide me with the averages required to reach (1) Amateur, (2) Pro, (3) Tour Pro, (4) Master, (5) Tour Master and (6) Legend?  

  What I'm thinking is, if the player is Tour Master, the number used for "Par" would be the number required to reach the Tour Master Tier.  If the Player is a Master, "Par" would be the number required to reach the Master tier.

  For example, My "last 20" score average is 60.6, with a "best 10 of the last 20" being 57.6.  The Par number would be 61.  Using the best 10 of 20 average, the calculations would look like this:

  Subtraction method:

       Adjusted average: 57.6 - 1 = 56.6

        Handicap: 56.6 - 61 = (4.4) or (4)

  Calculation method:

       Adjusted average: 57.6 * .96 = 55.3

       Handicap: 55.3 - 61 = (5.7) or (6)

  So, that's my theory.  Any suggestions?  Please refrain from the snide comments, okay?    

  Thanks

  Kat ♥

• EdJaws 402 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 2:14 PM

  Is this what  you're seeking?

  Tiers:

  • • When your average score is equal or smaller than 100 you go from hack to amateur.
    • When it is equal or smaller than 80 you go from amateur to pro.
    • When it is equal or smaller than 72 you go from pro to tour pro
    • When it is equal or smaller than 67 you go from tour pro to Master
    • When it is equal or smaller than 63 you go from Master to Tour master
    • When it is equal or smaller than 61 you go from Tour master to legend
    • When it is equal or smaller than 60 you go from Legend to Tour Legend*

• Mushy01 2,567 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 2:33 PM

  Great idea Kat, I'm sure a lot of cc owners would like this , save a lot of headaches for sure ...

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 2:35 PM

  EdJaws:

  Is this what  you're seeking?

  That's it.  Thanks.

  Question ... if you have a Master playing a Tour Master in a net tourney, should the master receive an additional 4 strokes +/- their handicap?  Lets say the Master's adjusted average is 65 and the tour master is a 63 based on the best 10 of 20 scores.  The Master is currently a (2) and the Tour Master is 0 based on my example.  

  Now since they are in different tiers, and the par value differential is 4, should the Master receive 2 strokes from the tour master or 4?  Think about this and let me know your thoughts.

  Thanks.

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 2:38 PM

  Mushy01:

  Great idea Kat, I'm sure a lot of cc owners would like this , save a lot of headaches for sure ...

  Thanks.  The downside is you have to manually  load the player's profile and copy the scoring history into the clipboard.  I wish there was a way for CC owners to obtain this information without going through all these hoops!

• EdJaws 402 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 2:57 PM

  A couple of things to think about Kat.
  
  -- Will your spreadsheet program differentiate between 9 or 18 hole scores and CTTH scores if someone is copying a players scoring history?
  
  -- Just when a player tiers up, their scores usually increase substantially until well after they saturate their score history at their current tier. How would your program compensate for that or does that not really matter? After all, half their scores could be at one tier and the other half at the new tier.

  Just food for thought.

• EdJaws 402 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 3:21 PM

  DaddysKat:

  Question ... if you have a Master playing a Tour Master in a net tourney, should the master receive an additional 4 strokes +/- their handicap?  Lets say the Master's adjusted average is 65 and the tour master is a 63 based on the best 10 of 20 scores.  The Master is currently a (2) and the Tour Master is 0 based on my example.  

  Now since they are in different tiers, and the par value differential is 4, should the Master receive 2 strokes from the tour master or 4?  Think about this and let me know your thoughts.

  I think using different par values for each tier will cause more problems as you just pointed out with your question above. Once you start mixing tiers you lose all handicap consistency from top to bottom.
  
  Having read and soon to be using Colbalt's handicap formula, and since there are no tour legends in my CC, I'll be using a base value of 61 instead of 60. In the long run it shouldn't make a difference since some of the best players will have a plus value to their handicap.

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 3:53 PM

  EdJaws:

  -- Will your spreadsheet program differentiate between 9 or 18 hole scores and CTTH scores if someone is copying a players scoring history?

  If you look at any player's scoring history, there is a field that will define the type of game that player played.  For example, looking at your scoring history, you have several CTTH games (no description in the "Holes" column), some "Front 9", some "Back 9", some "Full 18" and some "Blitz" games.  The program will scan through the clipboard and pick out the first 20 "Front 9", "Back 9" and "Full 18" games only.  It will have a column showing the score and another showing the full 18.  For 9 hole games, the score will be doubled.  Once the program has selected your last 20 games, it will scan through the list and pick out the top 10 18 hole scores, then compute the average.  

  EdJaws:

  -- Just when a player tiers up, their scores usually increase substantially until well after they saturate their score history at their current tier. How would your program compensate for that or does that not really matter?

  So lets say we have a tour pro that has in the last week tiered up to the Master level.  Prior to this, their shooting average for their best 10 was a 66.  Now they have 5 scores that are in the mid 70's.  If their previous 20 games have scores below these 70's, the program will throw these high scores out.  If they have 20 full games in the Master Tier, only the top 10 scores as a Master will be used, so it will eventually correct itself, as long as the player posts stroke play scores in their new tier.

   

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 4:21 PM

  EdJaws:

  I think using different par values for each tier will cause more problems as you just pointed out with your question above. Once you start mixing tiers you lose all handicap consistency from top to bottom.

  Edit:  After thinking about this, I've changed my mind.  I will line out the points I no longer think are valid.

  Here's where I have a different opinion.  If you setup a four game tourney and Masters, Tour Masters and Legends compete, using the static 61 for all would give a Master with an average of 65 a 4 stroke handicap.  If said master goes up against a legend with the same average, both would have a 4 stroke handicap.  Now if you use the 63 instead of the 61 for the Master, you give the master another 2 strokes in a net game.

  This is why I feel there should be an adjustment calculation for the different tees. Maybe 1 to 1 for Legends, .99 for Masters/TM, .98 for Pros and TP, etc.

  I know several of you will remind me "KISS".  Don't forget, I'm writing a program.  What's simplier than loading the player's scoring history and copying it to the clipboard, then running the program?  Once you begin the program, it will calc the handicap in a fraction of a second.  No real brainpower required.

   

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Jan 16 2014 6:21 PM

  I think you have it spot on Kat...but, you have to remember all CC's are not created "equal"...lol...what I mean is, i/e our CC. no one tanks a round to raise a HC...but we're a small group, and even with the new members, we are still getting along nicely.

   

  That said...and the fact we rarely play an unlimited tourney...Your HC calc would be perfect for us, if used in CC tourney's only.

   

  Even though a majority of our tourney's are bragging rights, no credits involved, we play to win.

   

  Now, assuming all players were like this, in their club, or even playing a WGT weekly, it'd be spot on.

   

  And hey, if that Cheap azzed owner of my club like it, and would make it easier for him...I'll slip ya a sleeve!