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Handicap Program - requesting suggestions and info

Fri, Dec 18 2015 2:57 PM (51 replies)
  • DaddysKat
    3,554 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 7:25 PM

    MBaggese:
    you have to remember all CC's are not created "equal"

    ... (in) our CC, no one tanks a round to raise a HC

    So very true.  In our CC, many members play very few "ranked" stroke play games.  I think to combat the sandbagging, there would need to be a date incorporated within the handicapping, where if a member does not have enough stroke play games for the system to handicap (say, 20 rounds within a two-month period), they get a handicap one lower than the lowest member of the CC.

    Next, thinking about the static "par", with a best 10 of 20, I feel this would actually work really well, with the exception of one moving up a tier prior to the date the handicap is performed.  Also, there would need to be some tweaking based on the tee box used, but that adjustment should be minimal.

    Please note, the handicap can be adjusted by either the CC Owner or CC's handicap chairman.  They are not locked in stone.  If you have a member that recently tiered up and are now playing from a different tee box (Tour Pro to Master, or Tour Master to Legend), you can adjust the handicap ... just type in the new number.

     

    MBaggese:
    And hey, if that Cheap azzed owner of my club like it, and would make it easier for him...I'll slip ya a sleeve!
     

    Thanks Baggs, it's nice, just not mandatory.  All my spreadsheets are free to use, but I do gladly accept gifted golf balls!

  • cobaltm
    3,961 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 7:57 PM

    MBaggese:
    And hey, if that Cheap azzed owner of my club like it, and would make it easier for him...I'll slip ya a sleeve!
    Absolutely no offense intended to you DaddysKat, but Bags.....AIN'T NEEEEEEEVER GONNA HAPPEN BUD......As the person that put forth the KISS principle in regards to all this I can't tell you how UN-KISS this whole thread seems to me.  There are just TOO MANY possible variables needed to account for to come up with a true "fair" formula for a WGT handicap.  And each person posting just adds to all those variables. So, thank you but I will stick to what I have.  It may be far from perfect but as they say...."It's close enough for government work" and I truly think it's "fair enough" for our friendly competition......Now, if you all will excuse me, reading and trying to comprehend most of this thread has given me a headache....I need some asprin...

    And Mike.....Cheap azzed??????........I'll deal with you in the club forum................

  • DaddysKat
    3,554 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 8:19 PM

    cobaltm:
    As the person that put forth the KISS principle in regards to all this I can't tell you how UN-KISS this whole thread seems to me.

    While you may never read this reply, the idea is to get the technicalities squared away and installed into the program, so you or anyone else that does "net" tournaments don't have to think about it.  

    Here's how the program would work, step by step ...

    1. load member's profile
    2. load "Scoring History" for said member
    3. highlight all data within the player's scoring history and [Right-Click]+[Copy] or [Ctrl]+[Ins}
    4. run the program
    5. log the calculated handicap.

    That's it ... I'd love to be able to avoid steps 1 - 3 and just obtain all the detail for each member electronically, but since there are limitations inherent in WGT, there simply has to be some manual work done ... but no calculator required.

    For your CC, since all you have are Legends/Tour Legends, this program would give you similar handicaps as you are currently getting manually - only faster and with a lot less effort on your part.

    So while you may think this is more complicated, it would actually prove to be simpler.

     

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 8:38 PM

    DaddysKat:
    So while you may think this is more complicated, it would actually prove to be simpler.

     

    See...Mike still pulls off his shoes and socks for simple aritmetic...ya know, gotta carry the 1 eventually.

     

    I thought if he'd just have something to "put a number in" and "poof" out came a result, he'd be happy.

     

    Now I would do an excel sheet for him-for what he uses, but he is sooo old school, he's running windows 3.1...sigh.

     

    Okay, off to my CC to get head smacked;)

     

  • DaddysKat
    3,554 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 8:57 PM

    MBaggese:
    he is sooo old school

    Some people are just stubborn.  I would have loved to get Cobalt's input.  I sure didn't mean to put him on the defensive.

    Sorry Cobalt ... you don't need to worry, I won't force this on you! 

  • cobaltm
    3,961 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 9:37 PM

    Well now....To quote a great quote "What we have here......is a failure to communicate"

    Kat, please re-read my original post here with a "humorous" intent.  I truly did not mean any put down to what you are trying to achieve.  When you get it worked out and ready to go I would like to"see" about using it AND, if you are okay with it, compare it to my method to see how much a difference it makes.  

    I don't know what you mean by getting my input but I will help you any way you see fit.

    I do have 1 (humorous) bone to pick with you young lady.........As a child of the 70's I'll thank you to not speak ill about my calculator!!!  Though I can add, subtract and multiply in my head, I can whip out my calculator and divide before you hit your dang f12 key or whatever!!!!!

    Oh yeah, another thing....Join my club and this will all be moot cause I'll put you in TOTAL CONTROL of this stuff with 1 caveat.......Bags keeps a positive handicap no matter what he shoots.(Should he survive his punishment for dissing me in OPEN WGT Forum)

    Mike

  • courteneyfish
    15,796 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 10:08 PM

    I'd just like to say that whatever system you come up with at least one member will not like it. Also if it's too complicated then some members will either stop playing or move to a different club. This is just the way of the world, it's not meant as a criticism of anybody.

  • oneeyedjohn
    9,581 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 11:19 PM

    I think it's time I stuck my oar in, as I initiated communication with Kat, purely to try and implement a system in my CC, Bags & cobaltm notwithstanding, to have a very simple , pretty and comprehensively accurate leaderboard system for tournaments that spread across 8 single 9 hole rounds.

    I was hoping to present the complete package to the Boss, and have him appoint me tourney & handicap manager as gratitude for relieving him of all the tedious leaderboard preparation he has to do, and then getting slammed in the CC forum, becuase he has 12th place player sitting at the top of his list.

    LMAO

    I guess my hope for getting a sleeve every week as a salary, has taken a serious nosedive.

    Sometimes even the best intended ideas go down like a fart in a spacesuit.

    1i ®

  • DaddysKat
    3,554 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 11:27 PM

    cobaltm:
    As a child of the 70's I'll thank you to not speak ill about my calculator!!!

    Mike:

    Here's a funny story for you.  When my uncle (born in the 50's) went to college, his Accounting instructor had students take turns putting 20 numbers on a movable chalkboard.  The board was moved to where no one, including the instructor could see the numbers being written down.  One by one, students would walk up to the board and write a random number down (between 100 - 100,000).  Once all of the numbers were written on the board, the board would be moved to where everyone could see.  He said if only one student could run their calculator faster than he could cypher, the entire class could use their calculator that semester.  No one could.  Said instructor never allowed a calculator to be used in his class during his tenure at the college; although he always had this offer at the beginning of each semester.

    Unfortunately, I never got the opportunity to learn how to cypher efficiently.  I can do simple math in my head, but throw in a Sine, Tangent or Cotangent calc and I'm lost without my calculator, but I'm pretty confident that I can highlight a list of scores and click a button faster than you can review that same list of scores and pick the best 10 out of 20 scores and compute the average.

    With that little bit of trivia, what I would like to obtain is, (1) do you feel when there are multiple tiers playing in a "Net" tournament using different tees, should there be an adjustment factor incorporated to adjust the handicap of those playing from the longer tees or should they simply play based on the best 10 of 20 average? (2) why?

    After manually computing several handicaps and reviewing tourneys that I have won, I can see that using a static "par" is the best and most fair approach.  With that said, a TM with a -3 handicap playing against a legend with a -3 handicap, the TM wins the "net" more than the Legend.  I checked 4 tourneys ... TM wins 3 out of 4 times.  

     

    Ms Fish:

    I can understand that some may not like this.  I for one hate playing Congressional or Olympic tourneys, but do.  I'm also not real fond of St. Andrews, but 90 percent of our CC's tourneys are setup on St. A's.  I also play these tourneys, even though they are not my favorite.

     With that said, the handicap would be used to determine a "Net" winner.  If you have tournaments where all players can enter, most times the winner will be a low average Legend or Tour Legend.  If you setup a multiple game tournament (usually 4 front nines and 4 back nines), and incorporate the handicap system with these 8 games, you'll get a totally different story.  Sure, it is still possible to have a Legend or Tour Legend win a "Net" tournament, but the handicaps will make this style of tourney fair to all members.  Those most likely to dislike this type of tourney would be the lower average players, since they will be giving away strokes to equal out the playing field.

    I'm not saying the handicap system should be used for each and every tournament.  It just gives you another style of tourney.  Just know that in order to determine the true winner, some manual work will need to be done.(computing the players' handicaps, then putting together the final "net" scores).

    With the spreadsheet, it can lessen the amount of work required (automatic handicap calculation and automatic score posting after the tourney is closed).  Just be aware that this style of tourney will require some manual work.

     

  • DaddysKat
    3,554 Posts
    Thu, Jan 16 2014 11:30 PM

    oneeyedjohn:
    I was hoping to present the complete package to the Boss, and have him appoint me tourney & handicap manager as gratitude for relieving him of all the tedious leaderboard preparation he has to do

    No worries 1i.  Since you and I have worked on this together, I would highly recommend you as your CC's tourney manager!

    I'd much rather code than manage!

    Don't sell yourself short ... go for at least 2 sleeves a week!  lol.

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