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WGT flag fail

Thu, Dec 24 2015 9:12 AM (162 replies)
  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 12:43 AM

    These flags are associated to your address when you choose your country at signup.  Your address information is critically important for online transactions.  On multinational e-commerce sites like WGT country (or region) is a required field.  WGT does not get to choose how the countries or regions are represented.  Those are dictated by the company WGT uses to process their payment transactions.  Not VISA or MC themselves, but a payment processor like XiPay.

    The only "choice" WGT really had in the matter was whether or not to incorporate that same flaglist into their design decisions. They did that and here we are today.

    Messing with billing and payment code is generally frowned upon, so we can't use the current list of "checkout" countries.  Honoring this request would require a second list of every country in world on which to base flag selection.  This new list would need to be called instead and code updated to do so in every single place you see a flag appear.  Forums, player lists, scorecards, profiles, game lobbies; literally every single place there's a flag on the website and within the gameclient.  That touches a LARGE amount of files including almost every major function of the game. 

    From a software development perspective changing that many files at once is absolutely terrifying.

    Unfortunately this is not an easy fix or a simple task. It's not just a matter of copy and paste or search and replace because WGT is comprised of hundreds of thousands of lines of code using a variety of languages across their various platforms. Some languages are sensitive to spacing, some are not.  Was everything replaced properly? It would take some time, be a little tedious and a lot could go wrong. It would also require a major testing effort just to make sure this little change doesn't bork something in the game 4 degrees of separation away.  Nothing is easy or simple when your source code exceeds a few hundred thousand lines.

    There's also risk associated with having to maintain two distinct country lists.  If a developer calls the wrong list by accident during a checkout request it could lead to some serious financial repercussions.  Payments start getting rejected by the hundreds/thousands because "Scotland" or "Wales" comes over instead of the expected "United Kingdom".  Now folks are irate because WGT is rejecting credit cards and won't take your money. 

    Then there's the WGT side of the decision.  As WGT CEO, I'm not willing to take a chance on losing a large amount of daily income because some fresh-out-of-college noob or contractor in development accidentally switched the lists on both his/her second and last day.  You'd think that kind of stuff wouldn't happen.  It does.  Technical experience does not necessarily equate to common sense.  Not everyone is a winner.

    WGT isn't going to do anything without a very strong reason to do so, and risk/reward is generally the deciding factor for things.  There is no financial gain for them here and it isn't something they can use to sell to new people.  "WGT: The only golf game with Scotland Flags" just doesn't carry the same weight as "WGT: Now with moar Pebble Beach!"

    While the intent of this request is fully understood and appreciated it still must be acknowledged as a cosmetic one.  One that currently carries a contingent of 8 unique people if I correctly counted the UK respondants on this thread over the last almost 2 years. While your arguments are completely sensible it's just not enough to convince me, as the decision maker, that taking on the aforementioned risks to offer this feature to so few people is a smart decision for the company.

    Consider how many times this idea has been suggested, acknowledged by mods, then gone silent.  It suggests that the requests are being quickly denied or put off for later discussion.  There really isn't a "good" way to explain it either.  Even the facts come off as pandering with an element of buck-passing, and trashing your vendors to your customers is not a good way to forge a good relationship with either.  So, silence is often the best medicine.  Better to leave a smoldering fire alone then to throw a liquid on it, which the fire may or may not perceive as gasoline.

    While it would be great for all interested parties that WGT finds a way to satisfy your longing to truly represent your home nations there is a technical reality to the situation, so I would at least temper those hopes for now.  Never say never though, right?

    Anyway, I hope this provides some perspective.

    Merry Christmas and all that fun stuff.

     

    TL;DR -  Technical issues(yawn), international standards beyond WGT's purview and potential risk factors(yawn) are more or less preventing this.  All stuff that is true that we, as customers, don't want to hear.

  • alosso
    21,070 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 1:26 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:
    These flags are associated to your address when you choose your country at signup.  Your address information is critically important for online transactions. 

    +1, and the rest snipped in agreement.

    Still I wonder about "Antarctica". Quite a few players use it, but it's not a state nor nation and has no (gambling) laws of it own.

    How would this fit into the requirements?

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 1:42 AM

    alosso:
    Still I wonder about "Antarctica". Quite a few players use it, but it's not a state nor nation and has no (gambling) laws of it own.

    I think most people choose it as a joke, with no intent to actually make a deposit.  I don't think it hurts anything and I'd have to assume there is some vetting process in place for users from that region given the low number of players in higher tiers.

    However, I do think there are a scant few legit folks who actually live at antarctic research stations enough for it to qualify as a home address.  And if that truly was the case, how could you not select it? :P

  • alosso
    21,070 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 5:37 AM

    IMHO, players chose it when free choice was possible. Same applies for Guernsey which has the St.George's cross desired by the English.

    OTOH, there is no political unit "Antarctica", and nothing official like that flag. According to Wikipedia, seven nations claim eight areas of the continent. So, which commercial or gaming laws should be applied for "Antarctica" players?

    Me thinks that nobody will be able to verify with that flag, still it exists and members play under it (one Champ, one TL, a few Legends).

    Apparently, it's a "flag fail" in the opposite direction.

    In which way would other requested flags be different? At least, the UK countries can safely be put under UK legislation, and Bavaria is part of Germany.

  • WoodenHands
    526 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 6:34 AM

    I can see some of what's been said, but.........

    When I joined up I could have have chosen any flag I wanted, if I remember correctly. Would WGT have still accepted payment from me then, even though my flag wouldn't have matched my billing address?

    If that was/is the case, would it make any difference if they added these now?

    If I change my flag (like I have done) would any payment I try to make then be refused?

    I may have this completely wrong, in which case my apologies, it's just incredibly frustrating that although WGT said they were adding flags, they didn't, nor will they reply to this thread.

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:22 AM

    WoodenHands:
    When I joined up I could have have chosen any flag I wanted, if I remember correctly. Would WGT have still accepted payment from me then, even though my flag wouldn't have matched my billing address?
    I believe that is correct.  This game started as a simple CTTH contest with 9 holes on Bali.  Back then flags were just flags and there was nothing to purchase.  There was no real need for flags to actually matter or be reflective of where you lived. At some point they removed that ability, but I can't remember when or why.

    WoodenHands:
    If that was/is the case, would it make any difference if they added these now?
    They could add them because there is no actual need for the flags at all.  And as someone pointed out they already have them.  They are just cosmetic.  WGT has your proper billing address, so purchases can be completed and tourney restrictions can still be fulfilled based upon that. 

    We could just go back to the "choose your flag" system based on a second user-configurable field, but that requires a decent amount of digging around in the code when you consider just how many places that flag appears.

    WoodenHands:
    If I change my flag (like I have done) would any payment I try to make then be refused?
    I believe so, but in this scenario I'm not quite sure.  I think the transaction would fail when the processor saw Scotland, Wales etc rather than United Kingdom just like it would if I had the wrong state.

    Also, how did you manage the Scot flag?  I thought that was the whole reason this thread existed, because you couldn't change your flag.  I cannot change the country of my billing address. It's grayed out. 

  • PaulTon
    10,731 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:28 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:
    Also, how did you manage the Scot flag? 

    A bit of html code is all Phil. Has to be applied to every post though, it's no more than a parlour trick, lol.

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:32 AM

    Interesting bit of hand-waving there.  I know you can do that via the inspector in dev console, but I thought that only appeared locally and would disappear on refresh.   I see you changed the image src, but I've no idea how I'm seeing it.  Are you manipulating the DOM or sending headers or what?

    edit: is this jQuery magic?

  • PaulTon
    10,731 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:39 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:

    Interesting.  I know you can do that via the dev console, but I thought that only appeared locally and would disappear on refresh.   I see you changed the image src, but I've no idea how I'm seeing it.  Are you manipulating the DOM or sending headers or what?

    I just click on HTML editor in post header and add this code (insert url for the flag you want) - 

    <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; top: -50px;">

    <img style="width: 18px; height: 11px; opacity: 1.0;" src="http://www.netanimations.net/Scotland-spinning.gif" />

    </div>

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:56 AM

    I get it locally but it's gone on refresh.  Am I not in the right place?

    http://vvcap.net/db/44blyeeXnST4oGxBJwTZ.htp

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