Forums

One full year on Tour - This is why I'll never make Legend

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Jul 4 2014 12:56 AM

  ISH47:

  got the VEM cranked up

  ISH47:

  you've missed a lot of putts because of it and it has your confidence dragging the bottom

  Just going by the video (well OK the few bits I watched) nothing was given a chance.  All user error and obviously so.  Good news IMO for the OP as it's fixable, and he did the correct thing asking.

  V Fast Greens = 85% distance then +/- elevation for puts over 10 feet.  Up to and including 10 feet start with 1:1.  

  That's a good ball park start point..

  VEM is nothing to do with any of this. 

• sweetmiffy 2,110 Posts

  Fri, Jul 4 2014 2:35 AM

  Except for one person's response, everyone else has been incredibly helpful. That's why I love WGT so much.

  You all rock.

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Sun, Jul 6 2014 8:25 PM

  ISH47:

  Here's what think..  I think they've got the VEM cranked up so high right now that it makes it almost impossible to learn from your (and my own) mistakes. I think probably you've missed a lot of putts because of it and it has your confidence dragging the bottom. 

  Well to be honest I don't think anyone on Tour has bought into the VEM conspiracy theory more than I have.  I think they LITERALLY have VEM built into every swing, and its one of the many reasons why WGT won't ever see even one wooden nickel coming out of my pocket.  I don't believe that VEM has been applied to the putting greens however.  Oh, sure, if you searched the forum I'm sure you could find an occasion or two where chrisironsbones was mad about losing putts to VEM, but there is a HUGE difference between Chris and I - HE ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW TO PUTT AND I DON'T. Any time I miss a makable putt that I should have made I don't say *#$%ing VEM, I say god @%^* it I wish I could putt.  I can't putt not because of VEM, I can't putt simply because I suck at it.

  Jimbog1964:

  V Fast Greens = 85% distance then +/- elevation for puts over 10 feet.  Up to and including 10 feet start with 1:1.

  Well for Very Fast Greens, I always use the following formula: Distance +/- elevation, and then divide by 1.2.  I use this for both uphill and downhill putts, and normally it remains true.  Occasionally, I'll find trouble spots where the Red down hill putt turns into a bright Orange downhill putt, and I'll divide by 1.3 or 1.4.  Typically I only used the formula for putts 7 feet or longer, but I suppose this could be part of the problem.  

  Tournament greens is an altogether different beast, however.  The forumula changes from course to course in my experience.  For example at RSA and RSG I might use 1.3 or 1.4 for downhill putts.  But for Merion, that son of a $%^&*, I would use 1.3 for all uphill putts, but 1.7 or greater for any downhill putts.  Since the intro of the stimp meter, 1.3 seems to be holding for uphill Tournament greens, but the downhillers I'm still trying to figure out.  And the only time I've ever even played on Championship greens is the open qualifier at Pinehurst, and I likely won't see them ever again unless I'm still playing this game next summer and I try to qualify for the Open at Chamber Bay.  Probably not, since the wind from Puget Sound will make club selection a nightmare, and I've never even been to a Starbucks LoL.

   

• ISH47 1,963 Posts

  Sun, Jul 6 2014 8:59 PM

  BigInigoMontoya:

  Well to be honest I don't think anyone on Tour has bought into the VEM conspiracy theory more than I have.

  Yeah, but VEM isn't a conspiracy at all.. as some here would have you believe.. and they know it.  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/132398/878738.aspx#878738 .. Pulled from another thread

  I hope the light bulb comes on for you pretty soon with the putting, I think that's all it is.. I've gotten a lot better recently since I got the Rossa putter.. probably because of all my miss dings.. Anyway, good luck with it.

• MainzMan 9,591 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 12:42 AM

  ISH47:

  Yeah, but VEM isn't a conspiracy at all.. as some here would have you believe.. and they know it...........

  I hope the light bulb comes on for you pretty soon with the putting.....    Anyway, good luck with it.

  These two pieces of advice appear to be at odds with each other.

  The first says Abandon hope all ye who enter here.  Basically you're saying no matter how hard they try some will never be able to play well because they're not on WGT's favourite players list.

  The second suggests it is possible for anyone to play well, it just needs patience and time.

  Are we in hell or not?

• sweetmiffy 2,110 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 12:49 AM

  MainzMan:

  Are we in hell or not?

  If we are, then it's only the 1st circle, and a punch shot of baptism should get us back. Although there are excellent conversations to be had here.

• ISH47 1,963 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 6:18 AM

  MainzMan:

  These two pieces of advice appear to be at odds with each other.

  Both of these "pieces of advice" as you call them, are actually facts.. You can't dispute it, so you try to words in my mouth.

  VEM is REAL.. and the OP hasn't yet figured out the the putting game.. but he will.

  MainzMan:

  Basically you're saying no matter how hard they try some will never be able to play well because they're not on WGT's favourite players list.

  Where the **** did I say that?  My name isn't CIB, I only posted that thread to stop the naysayers from denying that it can effect one's game.. which in turn makes it harder to learn from one's mistakes AND get positive feedback from a well read putt.

  The variables built into this game make it harder for new players to learn. THAT is also a fact.

  MainzMan:

  The second suggests it is possible for anyone to play well, it just needs patience and time.

  I know I never said this wasn't true..

  This game can be mastered.. in spite of VEM.

  MainzMan:

  Are we in hell or not?

  I'm in Vernon, Alabama.

   

• DonCaron 5,502 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 7:10 AM

  I believe the VEM works both ways,if we didn`t have it, we would be shooting 50`s and the game would get old fast.

  I have had crazy shots and I`ve had bad misses on the meter and still all over the pin.

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 10:27 AM

  VEM...RIGGED GAME....CHEATERS!!!!

  FACTS: ALL high level TourMasters, New Masters, new Legends take note...

  Played the unlimited on Kiwiah, -5 after 4 holes, after approach on #9 I was -6 and chipping, WTF, BS, F'n WGT, how the eff did this BS happen!!!!

  OH YEAH, welllllll, I did pull a 7 ft birdie putt on #5...same on #6 with a 7 ft  birdie with a big break that lipped out....

  missed my long eagle putt on #7 because I pushed it trying not to pull it, well that and I miss read it!....I missed a 4 ft birdie with a big break on #8 because I pulled it, that and I shouldn't have been left where the big mound is trying to get close when right of it is pretty straight putts....

  on #9 I have 144 to go as usual with a 5 crosswind, a shot I know very very well and execute all the time and I decided to try for an eagle and hit 9i(135) with max high spin to roll up to the hole, but it landed short of the green instead!!!!

  I cussed the game for a second but the fact is there isn't much green in front of that pin and it was uphill and that was a dumb shot....

  The key point of this stupid post is the word I...I played great, but I pulled/pushed 4 putts and did something I never do on a approach...the reason the thousands of players who would have shot -10 or -11 from where I landed  is because they don't!

  I played great, missed 3 putts by a total of probably 2 inches, if I'm sitting at -10 with 144 in I never hit that bad approach...on those days I make those putts, I proudly post my scorecard on my wall for all to see, my name is on the leader board and I wait for my 20-30 credits at the end of the week, on the days I don't, I hold myself accountable....2 inches and a bad decision was the difference between a great round and a restart, YES it is that close when you play this game!!!

  So enjoy bad drives because you were VEM'ed, missing the green because WGT alters the game, enjoy those 20-30 ft putts because WGT altered the wind on you, enjoy it while you can because as you get better clubs/balls you will run out of those excuses...then you either hold yourself accountable or quit after spending all that money!!!!

  I am off to try Kiwiah again, hopefully I don't screw it up this time!!!!

• SOYEL1 698 Posts

  Mon, Jul 7 2014 10:51 AM

  Even at Tour Legend, I struggle with some putts. You had different green speeds and you seem to treat them all the same. Another thing I have found is... if you need a pull or push you have to fight for it... I ding many of those I want to pull or push. You dinged many of those that would have gone in hitting right or left of ding. Also, downhill putts tend to break more than uphill, and all courses play a bit different.

  And another thing... It comes in cycles... like one day you are Rambo, next you are Madonna and next Rambonna.