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*** Green dots update ***

• ColumbusStorm 3,417 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 12:07 PM

  andyson:

  I wouldn't mind if WGT left it as is and moves on to fix the invite problem.

  For putts with not a lot of break, it is easy to adjust as I have accomplished too. Also easier to adjust for slower green speeds (7-11). The difficult putts to adjust for are the putts with large breaks and/or faster green speeds (12-14) .  I try to putt those from memory, but my memory is not as good.

  My putting method is by "feel", I try to envision the ball moving along the green and breaking at the same pace as the dots move.  Currently for slow greens (9-11), I kind of pretend they are Champ13 greens in terms of break. For Champ13 I double the breaking distance. These methods seem to work okay. but not real confident.

  Seriously the dots should move at the same pace as the ball would. Same calculations for dot movements as the ball movement, seems logical to me.

  Really, if the green dots are kept as is, I'll work out another method. But LET US KNOW and let us know before alterations are made.

  Putting on Oly #5 and Mer #3 and #5 with TL greens is a real adventure now. Lots of greens you can avoid tough putts, but not knowing the break is rather cruel in some places.

   

   

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 12:18 PM

  I say fix it right Andy ... leaving it as it is (otherwise known as the "that's good enough" method) is second best at best .... it doesn't set a good precedent ... 

  I work in manufacturing, and I see the results on a daily basis, of that method being employed. Poorly running machinery, poor product quality, lost production, loss of morale among employees who have to struggle under those conditions ... 

  If allowed to go on here, you will get the same effects (more or less) ... game performance was fine at one time, and now it's whacked. The thing that WGT needs to be concerned about is the more withdrawls and the reduced amount of ready-go turnover, not to mention the reduced amount of participation in all types of competition.

  The thing that WGT higher-up's need to consider is, was the "improvement" in game performance worth the lost revenue? Adaptation is a failed policy ....

• Ianzzz 6,348 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 12:53 PM

  andyson:

  I only see member opinions in this thread.  Where do you see facts?  If your statement is based on your opinion, well, you're not a great putter either.  My putting stats are better than yours, and I don't consider myself even a good putter.  I'm average at best for my level.

  A bit presumptive. I take my opinion on three times as many putts as your stats with comparible results and it has definitely been slowed. Reading earlier in the thread I believe that FMagnets (who, lets be honest does know without doubt what he is on about) also said that they were different -

  fmagnets:

  Yesterday, a good quick fix was to aim where the dots were saying, then double it. Today the old and new are starting to get a bit blurry.....

  - and if there had been any changes in the meantime, I am fairly sure that a Mod would have been all over this thread like a rash, claiming it fixed.

  Also choosing stats like the two top players mentioned is a bit of TV nonsense - to be a worthy stat it needs to be over a range and lets face it, the two mentioned are unlikely often to be more than a few feet away anyway - that is what makes them top players.

  As to the RGs, why has there been an upsurge in WDs - because players get fed up when the dots are not playing and too many putts are missed.   I have only played a few, relying on this many WDs, since I know that normally I would be well out of pocket - does not make me a better player.

  So, in my opinion  - which seems to be "on message" with the majority i that here is an issue - whether it gets fixed or not is not in our hands but it is needing doing.

   

   

• 1yes1no 223 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 1:05 PM

  I cannot speak for everyone as some on here have begun to claim, but I have begun to play less.  Constantly having to relearn and having to watch my reliable clubs made irrelevant by new course variables grows tiresome.

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 1:05 PM

  Perhaps Don WGT figured by improving the meter smoothness they would improve revenue by keeping more new players and making established players happier?  Bad that they overlooked the side effect of that change.

  Your "fix it right" I assume means the exact same dot speed as before the change?  Will there ever be 100% concurrence among the players?  How will we know its the same?  Even if WGT gave their measurements data, I think there will be posts on how its still off.  Our view is mainly subjective. And TBH, putting now isn't a big problem for me with the new dots.  I still suck!

  A bigger problem IMO is invites not going through.  Not to forget mentioning all the other "issues" introduced in the last month or so need to be fixed.   I really hope the game engineers worked through the weekend on fixes and those fixes are thoroughly tested so new problems weren't introduced.

   

   

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 1:23 PM

  Ianzzz:

  Also choosing stats like the two top players mentioned is a bit of TV nonsense - to be a worthy stat it needs to be over a range and lets face it, the two mentioned are unlikely often to be more than a few feet away anyway - that is what makes them top players.

  And that's why I did the whole RG field averages.  Scoring is comparable in that small sample of tournaments and does cover a range of player skills.

  Ianzzz:

  As to the RGs, why has there been an upsurge in WDs - because players get fed up when the dots are not playing and too many putts are missed.  

  Since only 2 of the 4 "After" tournaments show abnormally high WDs that's not a fair assumption.  Its just as likely I picked two with tough conditions.  Not saying putting did not play a part, just saying other factors could as well play a part on a small sample.

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 1:34 PM

  Exactly Andy ... there wouldn't be 100% agreement among players because of subjectivity ... but the speed the dots were is (was) an objective exact value ... I don't know if they can achieve that same speed again with the other changes they've instituted. And by the way, the supposed "meter fix" wasn't really a fix ... it was a patch that worked temporarily. It's worse now than it ever was, despite being the best that I've ever seen it right after the fix. 

  All things considered, the changes and the massive amounts of side effects should be rolled back to some time before the rough update when glitches were few and mild in their effect upon gameplay. Merely hunting and pecking and patching is not improving gameplay. The massive number of threads point to player disillusionment with the game. 

  Do they want to fumble around with the game three more months (or more) or do they really want to fix it? The choice is theirs ... 

   

• pearljammmmer 4,268 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 2:31 PM

  I think the dot speed is pretty close to if not back to what it originally was - I have not played all the courses but from my own putting plus watching other players' putts in alt shot games, when putts with a break miss, they are missing on either side, not almost always on the low side like what was happening before.

  Either players are subconsciously adjusting to the slower speed and/or the site has gotten the speed back close to what it was before. It just seems to me like putts are acting "like they should" a lot more than about a week ago. And also I am seeing way less "huh?" type comments after missed putts than before.

  And I sure am no TL or expert putter at all - the site wants feedback, so there's mine...

   

• bifferskipper 76 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 2:39 PM

  bhoese:

  Major upgrade to ground physics allowing for better roll out of the ball when chipping. You can now effectively play bump and run chip shots. This is a major change and will mean everyone will have to relearn how to chip the ball. However it has enabled a whole new range of shots to be hit. To accommodate the extra roll we reduced the power of the chip swing overall and have replaced all the yardages for chip swings below the meter 

   

  Funny, in real golf I've NEVER had to re-learn a shot...maybe re adjust for rough/lie Ect. But you people (wgt) are getting out f hand with all this so called upgrade stuff. Why the heck can you leave the game alone??? fix what's broken. The invite issue is back now also. 

• fmagnets 3,640 Posts

  Sun, Mar 8 2015 3:10 PM

  Ianzzz:

  Reading earlier in the thread I believe that FMagnets (who, lets be honest does know without doubt what he is on about) also said that they were different -

  fmagnets:

  Yesterday, a good quick fix was to aim where the dots were saying, then double it. Today the old and new are starting to get a bit blurry.....

  Well I've done what I should have done a few days ago, rather than playing less. I broke out the vids from before the changes, recreated some of the putts where there was a good opportunity to measure dot speed, and compared new with old. Surprisingly, I have found that the putting view dots are moving at exactly the same speed as they were before. Even on Merion where the difference seemed so stark when I posted earlier this week. IMO the reason that most so many players have become confused/disillusioned is because the chipping dots have become 20-25% slower than the putting dots. I checked, and they were exactly the same before the changes. Chipping view is what most good players use to read their putts in fine detail, so they are now being given conflicting ideas of speed from the two different views.

  Icon has this info as of last night and will hopefully be able to act on it early next week.

  I also checked that a putt that broke 1 grid box took the same time to travel to the hole as the putting dot took to travel the width of the grid box, from the aim point down to the hole. This is approximately as the physics should be.