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High ding rate = cheating?

Sat, Dec 31 2016 5:26 PM (437 replies)
  • bigcountry317
    4,269 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:53 PM

    jeffmatulich:
    Yes they are, especially the fwtg - the most critical IMHO.  If you have your distance and wind down pat, make that appropriate aim and you ding you are waaaaaaay closer 98% of the time save for the variance of VEM.

    You are correct.....the catch is that I tend to click right in front or behind the ding INTO the wind on most approaches so I still manage to put most approaches in good shape for birdie putts.  I used to be a missding putter but started aiming a couple years ago....still struggle mightily with little benders under 4ft but am much better from long range than I was using the prior method.  

    I'd really enjoy seeing the results of any players that would take on the experiment.  Like most anything involving skill, this is simply one piece of the puzzle but could help players that are constantly complaining about wgt screwing 'em to better understand where they need to improve their game.

  • coors71
    656 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:11 PM

    BC and Jeff just proved that the TOP players can achieve higher ding rates? You both claim not to be the TOP players? Well that is another mark against this ridiculousness. The explanation states that............

     

    [View:http://www.wgt.com/themes/wgt/utility/:550:0]

     

     

    jeffmatulich:
    334 shots/184 dings = 49.4%.
     

    So with the information provided via Bc, I say feasible. Add to that Jeff's comments , again feasible. So those two gentlemen are WAY better than the top players? Ok I am being facetious just a tad, but not poking fun at anyone.

     

    But alas we will never know just because Oz is still behind the curtain and will not come out, where is Toto when you need him? I guess the whole lot are in choir practice and working on that famous number "If I only had a brain" .

  • alanti
    10,564 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:15 PM

    Those are some interesting stats BC, and I would be tempted to trial this too, primarily for my own interest. I have assumed I am at around 35-40% ding....but having played with you and seeing your stats....I fear this will be much lower lol! This might take a while as I am not playing much at the moment due to commitments.

    On a good day with a good meter, I can ding pretty well, but 79% is pretty darn good - but depends on the set up, your eye/hand co-ordination and meter.

    But I will often try to hit late or early to counter wind, so ding is not always king.

    I was pretty shocked to see Jims quote from WGT, and banning a player simply based on a ding rate is highly speculative to say the least. To base the findings on one round would be ludicrous.

    The problem with WGT is they do not share information and we do not know the full story...period, so then all we can do is speculate in turn. This will not change

    I am all for banning cheaters - in fact I applaud it, but to do so the company must have evidence not just a gut feeling. The problem here is WGT will always have the last say, regardless whether they have got it right or not.

  • bigcountry317
    4,269 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:27 PM

    coors71:
    You both claim not to be the TOP players?

    I said I wasn't a ding master.....figured people can make up their own minds as to the quality of my play.  I will say though that I don't consider myself to be in the league with the big tourney/money winners as I simply cannot string the number of insanely low rounds together that it takes to win those events.  The reason some pretty good players won't claim to be "top"?  There is a level/quality of play that most, me included, simply cannot comprehend but it doesn't mean that level can't be reached legitimately.

    On the 40%, that is actually what I was measuring against when I started this drill.  Just wanted to see if that was a reasonable ding% or not.....I'd say wgt is missing the mark low here and that it is quite possible to be well above the 40%.  Jeff's numbers pretty well mirrored those that I shared and I'd guess there has to be loads of players capable of similar ding %.  Again, I'm of the opinion that the "trial" doesn't justify the banning as a stand alone event.  Either wgt is in error or there is more to it than what was passed along in the emails and such.  

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:35 PM

    TopShelf2010:
    Regarding the trial round that took place, it is my understanding that it was a one and done trial? I call BS.

    First just in reply to this.

    Yes it was one 9 hole session.  Tricky conditions, meter darting huge and there to see, -8 thru the 9 and guilty as charged.

    More generally to recap:

    WGT have said they will always give you a reason if they ban you.  It is possible that translates to a false reason, but that's extreme supposition.  I am taking it they might just stand by that one statement at least, or we can say all credibility is gone.

    WGT gave one short, discreet and very unambiguous statement explaining their actions after the trial:

    I used to play loads.  Plenty of my "reasonable" rounds on my YouTube channel showing my reasonable standard.  Never stopped to work it out but pretty sure I hit where I wanted way way more than 40% of the time.  Doubt I would have finished as OK in that many RGs (lower level ones mainly accepted)  if I was all over the place.

    Q is an unashamed this game addict.  He has top level clubs and balls, and maintains done nothing wrong except practice his preferred 100% ding aim method (every shot / putt).  I went on an information gathering exercise, and talking to real good players 70-80% is well within honesty range.  Can't and would never name them here as their shout for that, but talking some names in all that.

    Now what I see from this is that the 40% is utter rubbish. WGTs base number is just crap.  Qs "trial" was the one x9 only as said.  No one on this earth would ding 70%+ with that meter and few would score -8, which all happened.  WGT have been offered Skype, as the player has nothing to fear, but deaf ears.  I have not researched Skype but high level this is a good way?  It was quickly suggested during the trial but never responded to as Q never knew about that way, and we only recently focused on it as neither did we...

    The 40% is not safe to say the least.  They claim they counted 79% and safe or not we are giving the benefit of the doubt they don't give.  79% though is not unreasonable.

    Remember the short, discreet and unambiguous "verdict" above.  It partly relies on not pleading guilty to and explaining which new sup Mr Otto he was using.  Such a beast is unknown to any human kind I have spoken to, and some real decent names involved in that research.

    The companies manner in communication with Q is way below anyway I would treat someone or expect to be treated.  By the by largely, but adds to my feelings about how they have administered this so called justice.  I simply do not have any faith in what they are doing at this point.

    I am not looking for possible excuses for the company.  I am merely showing their behaviour to be dreadful, and their affirmations rubbish from start to finish.  Sadly they have taken peoples time up much with it, and more importantly banned someone with a verdict that is BS from start to end.

     

     

     

  • adaputter
    1,954 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:45 PM

    i have no trouble dinging the ball

  • adaputter
    1,954 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 1:50 PM

    putting is very hard tho

  • krskfr
    458 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 2:39 PM

    I'm surprise WGT is allowing that email conversation between them and the person in question, on these forums. That's private and no business of ours even though i fully disagree with his punishment all due to high ding rate versus lower ding rate while streaming.

  • TopShelf2010
    10,933 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 3:07 PM

    .

  • alanti
    10,564 Posts
    Wed, Jul 20 2016 3:23 PM

    TopShelf2010:
    But then again, this is not a trial by jury

    In Australia, we call it a kangaroo court...or in the case of the Victorian Police, the adage is, Shoot first, then ask questions!

    Since the inception of "security sweeps" some players have been banned for unknown reasons - here we have seen some communication offered (not by the company) and on that the evidence,  is circumstantial and flimsy.

    What else has gone on behind the scene is less clear, but IF the explanation we have seen is the only factor involved, then "Houston we have a problem".

     

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