Forums

High ding rate = cheating?

• jeffmatulich 482 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 10:00 AM

  That 

  bubbsboy:

  If say auto was used, then not all month as ding was not 100%  over the month so was it 100% in credit tournies and 60% in non.. credit ones.

  Just wondering if WGT can break ding hits down.

  Someone just brought that up in our club.  Short answer is most certainly they can and it would be easy.  Jeez all they really need to look for is how often a player winning credits hits within a 3 millisecond dispersement on approach shots and 1st putts (doesnt even need to be on ding).  Just the simple fact that they are hitting within such a tight range would be humanly impossible if not using a shot timer.

  Believe me - they have all the data on every shot hit by every player in this game.

• mbcarp99 1,078 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 10:04 AM

  coors71:

  So that is (A) many games per night x  (7) daily  = 79% .

   

  G X H X D = 79%

   

  Or how ever it would be written out, not a math genius. Maybe that would explain how he achieved that percentage then? If I am wrong, please explain where I went wrong there.  Ok that is enough for ya'll to mull over for now I guess.

  I find it admirable that you are fighting a friends corner here, i would do the same and the way this has been handled with the streamed round doesn't sit right, however i don't personally believe the fact that he played many hours per night would make him ding more, it would make him a better player yes but ding more i doubt, imo being an insomniac has no bearing on the 79% ratio, just my opinion i hope you understand

• Tigerpaw509 1,285 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 10:31 AM

  Dollars to donuts this is just the beginning so I wonder who’s next.

  I dont buy the ding rate % as to why this person was banned,has to be another reason and Wgt doesnt have to tell us why.

   

• lonniescott711 4,207 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 11:05 AM

  Tigerpaw509:

  Dollars to donuts this is just the beginning so I wonder who’s next.

  I dont buy the ding rate % as to why this person was banned,has to be another reason and Wgt doesnt have to tell us why.

   

  +1 Everyone is so focused on the ding rate % that they have all forgotten about the most important part of the game . Vem/ deviation  is more important than the ding rate . Like I said earlier hitting the ding does not mean a player is going to hole out . Hitting the ding also does not mean that the shot will give positive results .

  How many times have players hit their shot over the pond on Congo only to have the ball come up short and land in the water oh and this is with hitting the ding . How many times have you hit the ding shot over bunkers only to have the ball come up short and land in the bunkers .

  Also how many times have you hit a shot and knew that you had enough club to get there and have the game knock the bottom out of your club and come up short ? I`m no top player but I know how all of what I just mentioned happens and if its not happening to top players then something is wrong .

  Once in a thread a Mod admitted that WGT could target a players account if they so chose to do so and turn up the Vem / deviation if they wanted to . Now if they did that to this player and they were still able to play through that while being monitored then WGT would know .

  See you can hit the ball and you can hit the ding but you cant determine the out come of the shot .Those variables are controlled by WGT and you can bet they can tell and know when a player is playing outside of those variables . WGT just gave an excuse to pacify the player and thats all . Just like clear your flash its your computer or your internet provider. Just a bogus response to look like a legitimate reply . 

   

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:10 PM

  Another bit of info that hasn't been mentioned yet, unless I've missed it...

  In conversations with the player in question, wgt said (paraphrasing), "Just tell us the specific auto-ding program you're using so we can take a look at it and add it to our list."

  In essence, he could have confessed, and could have had his "sin" forgiven, but would have had to lie to do so, because he wasn't using any such program.

  I tend to take wgt at their word, this was all about the high ding rate over a 30 day period and their assumption that it was achieved using an auto-ding program.

  It's seeming more and more like the colonial days in the US..."Throw her into the pond.  If she floats, she's a witch and will be hanged.  If she drowns, she's innocent."

  Again, all input concerning this matter is welcomed and encouraged.  Good points are being made both for and against, but I believe the weight of evidence favors the accused.

• bigcountry317 4,269 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:24 PM

  I never have given much thought to ding % until reading this thread over the last couple of days.  I tend to play a bit loose and don't worry much with the ding from tee to green but do try for the ding on most putts and there is the occasional drive or approach where I'll focus real hard at doing so as well(doesn't mean I manage to hit the mark lol).  

  jeffmatulich:

  Just and idea as an experiment here - For those of you who think you're a top player (or a ding king) and feel a 79% ding rate is achievable (and are ding players by trade) - just count your dings over the next 20 rounds, add up your scores, do the math an report back.  It would be interesting to map out and track in this thread.

  I do not consider myself to be a ding master but have been experimenting with this over the last two days.  I have recorded six 18 hole rounds so far with various conditions (most were in cc or rg tourneys) and all were single play with no restarts.  Take the results as just a small sample size but interesting none the less....I TRIED to ding every single shot I had for each round and have broken the data into Drive%, FWTG (Fairway to Green)%, Putting% and Total Shot%.  The score for the round is in there as well & while they aren't quite as low as what I'd like to think is typical for me, they probably represent a pretty accurate picture as I am on the never ending wgt roller coaster ride scoring wise.

  

  The results were a bit eye opening.....if asked, I'd have said I probably ding around 75-80% on the putts followed by around 60% on the drives and around 50% on FWTG.  I'd have guessed a good 10-20% high on each category based on these numbers.  If anyone chooses to give it a test run I think they will be a bit surprised at just how hard it is to get above 60% on any of 'em with a "normal" (not always buttery smooth but usually pretty good) meter.

  This is not to say that people cannot attain a 79%, or better, ding rate.....but, put me in the camp that thinks that'd be an extremely impressive feat.  

  edit: it is only fair to say that the vast majority of my "missed dings" were missed by the smallest of margins either side......could someone else be good enough to avoid those small margins, yes it is possible I suppose.

• krskfr 458 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:32 PM

  I was wrong a month or so again believing this player we're talking about in this Forum was caught red-handed with some sort of 3rd party software, clearly that isn't the case, i vote to reinstate this guy promptly without further notice. All in favor, say "I".

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:34 PM

  bigcountry317:

  This is not to say that people cannot attain a 79%, or better, ding rate.....but, put me in the camp that thinks that'd be an extremely impressive feat.  

  BC, thanks for posting the chart.  I agree that 79% is an extremely impressive feat, but not out of the question for an extremely talented player.  Should it require a closer look by wgt?  Probably so...but of itself should not be cause for banning.  This is the meat of the matter, a player banned because of an assumption of guilt.

• bigcountry317 4,269 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:41 PM

  mkg335:

  BC, thanks for posting the chart.  I agree that 79% is an extremely impressive feat, but not out of the question for an extremely talented player.  Should it require a closer look by wgt?  Probably so...but of itself should not be cause for banning.  This is the meat of the matter, a player banned because of an assumption of guilt.

  Your welcome and I've actually kinda enjoyed testing the ding percentages....and may have found some areas I could stand to work on a bit.  It wasn't an exercise in trying to disprove the ability to have a higher ding% at all.....just wanted to have a measuring stick.  Also, agree with the central theme of the majority of posters in this thread.....it would be extremely impressive to achieve anywhere close to the 79% rate but I can see it as being possible and the one round "trial" sure doesn't pass the sniff test as the stand alone reason for banning the player.

• jeffmatulich 482 Posts

  Wed, Jul 20 2016 12:41 PM

  bigcountry317:

  The results were a bit eye opening....

   

  Yes they are, especially the fwtg - the most critical IMHO.  If you have your distance and wind down pat, make that appropriate aim and you ding you are waaaaaaay closer 98% of the time save for the variance of VEM.  Miss the ding and you're gonna have a sizable putt - 99%of the time (yes there are those wtf shots where VEM works both ways but not as many as you really think)

  Thanks for sharing and I am in a similar boat - though I have not broken down as forensically as you have.  334 shots/184 dings = 49.4%.  And I tried hard to hit ding (as I always do).....and thought I was dinging more than usual.  

   

  Looking forward to more posts like yours.