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WGT - make Kiawah harder

• philspace 65 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 7:20 AM

  Given that WGT (imo rightfully) claims to be the most realistic virtual golf experience, I think that Kiawah should be made harder to play to accurately reflect the course's difficulty.

  Most players here would agree that in terms of difficulty, the full stroke play courses available at WGT at the moment are in the following order (from easier to more difficult): St. Andrews, Kiawah, Bethpage, Oakmont.

  However, according to USGA course and slope ratings, the order should be the following:

  St. Andrews: 72.1 / 129

  Bethpage Black: 75.4 / 144

  Oakmont: 76.8 / 144

  Kiawah: 79.6 / 155

  Congressional should be similar to Bethpage Black with ratings of 75.6 / 142.

• sixkiller 1,147 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 7:45 AM

  From the legend tees and tournament speed greens, I think Kiawah plays pretty darn tough, I can score better on Andrews and Oakmont, for sure. BP is  is probably the toughest for me. If Kiawahs greens would read true (they dont) it would be a lot easier! That being said, your logic for course difficulty is correct, part of the issue is Kiawah was WGT's first effort on a full 18 hole course and it doesn't play as true to life as some of the later efforts. Thanks, Hitemstr8!

• SGTBilko 1,686 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 8:18 AM

  sixkiller:

  From the legend tees and tournament speed greens, I think Kiawah plays pretty darn tough, I can score better on Andrews and Oakmont, for sure. BP is  is probably the toughest for me. If Kiawahs greens would read true (they dont) it would be a lot easier! That being said, your logic for course difficulty is correct, part of the issue is Kiawah was WGT's first effort on a full 18 hole course and it doesn't play as true to life as some of the later efforts. Thanks, Hitemstr8!

  Sixkiller is right, when you become legend it becomes a difficult course.

• SgtDoodles 3,112 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 8:39 AM

  SGTBilko:

  sixkiller:

  From the legend tees and tournament speed greens, I think Kiawah plays pretty darn tough, I can score better on Andrews and Oakmont, for sure. BP is  is probably the toughest for me. If Kiawahs greens would read true (they dont) it would be a lot easier! That being said, your logic for course difficulty is correct, part of the issue is Kiawah was WGT's first effort on a full 18 hole course and it doesn't play as true to life as some of the later efforts. Thanks, Hitemstr8!

  Sixkiller is right, when you become legend it becomes a difficult course.

  And Deathpage plays a lot easier on easy tees! Man I managed a 30 there!

• SGTBilko 1,686 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 8:48 AM

  SgtDoodles:

  And Deathpage plays a lot easier on easy tees! Man I managed a 30 there!

  While this has always been my favorite course, I think it is just as easy as a legend as it was as a TM

• philspace 65 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 8:48 AM

  sixkiller:

  From the legend tees and tournament speed greens, I think Kiawah plays pretty darn tough, I can score better on Andrews and Oakmont, for sure. BP is  is probably the toughest for me. If Kiawahs greens would read true (they dont) it would be a lot easier! That being said, your logic for course difficulty is correct, part of the issue is Kiawah was WGT's first effort on a full 18 hole course and it doesn't play as true to life as some of the later efforts. Thanks, Hitemstr8!

  I agree that the increase in difficulty from master to legend tees is most pronounced at Kiawah. Still, it does not seem to accurately reflect the USGA ratings. But then again you may well be right that Kiawah does not play as true to life as it was their first full stroke play effort.

• SgtDoodles 3,112 Posts

  Sun, Mar 27 2011 9:03 AM

  philspace:

  sixkiller:

  From the legend tees and tournament speed greens, I think Kiawah plays pretty darn tough, I can score better on Andrews and Oakmont, for sure. BP is  is probably the toughest for me. If Kiawahs greens would read true (they dont) it would be a lot easier! That being said, your logic for course difficulty is correct, part of the issue is Kiawah was WGT's first effort on a full 18 hole course and it doesn't play as true to life as some of the later efforts. Thanks, Hitemstr8!

  I agree that the increase in difficulty from master to legend tees is most pronounced at Kiawah. Still, it does not seem to accurately reflect the USGA ratings. But then again you may well be right that Kiawah does not play as true to life as it was their first full stroke play effort.

  Is the USGA rating thingy based on the hardest tees? If it is then that makes sense why it says it's so hard.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 2:55 AM

  Interesting post.

  Putting on Kiawah is a bear (uneven greens), and personally I don't score well there - we just don't get along. But if most people find Kiawah and St. Andrews fairly easy, my guess is because the rough is not very rough. The rough at Bethpage and Oakmont is set at US Open standards, which are more punitive.

  Bethpage and Oakmont are also in the US target golf tradition, where the courses are laid out in a way that generally forces the golfer to take a single line of play. If you stray, recovery is difficult. St. Andrews especially gives the player many options, and recovery is possible from many locations wherever your drive lands.

• TarheelsRule 5,560 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 9:28 AM

  To me Kiawah is one of the toughest courses as a Legend.  St Andrews and Beth Page play easier and while I can't go low (under 65) at Oakmont I can usually score in the 65 to 66 range.  The long tees at Kiawah and the difficult greens protect it as well as any other course.  The only issue to me is that the difference between master and legend tees on 8 holes at Kiawah is so severe that you can't hardly play them and have a chance.

• jeffdos924 1,085 Posts

  Mon, Mar 28 2011 12:47 PM

  SGTBilko:

  SgtDoodles:

  And Deathpage plays a lot easier on easy tees! Man I managed a 30 there!

  While this has always been my favorite course, I think it is just as easy as a legend as it was as a TM

   You're pretty much right there, SGT .. Bethpage really isn't that much different from the Legend tees than from Master/TM tees.

   On both 9's, there are really only 3 holes that play much longer.

   On the front 9 :

   #3... +31 yrds ... more difficult b/c you almost have to hit hybrid or 3w.

  #4 ... +33 yrds ..Longer, but not really much tougher as it's usually a 3 shot par 5 from either set of tees.

   #5 ... +27 yrds .. Again, not a lot tougher since you're probably still laying up in the bunker and playing for the up & down par.

   On the back 9:

   # 10 .. +48 yrds .. 200ish yrd 2nd shot definitely harder, but doable.  #10 is usually a par hole for me as TM, I manage about the same from the black tees.

  #13 ... + 51 yrds .. Another 3 shot par 5 , and fairly easy birdie. You definitely won't see as many putts for eagle as a Legend.

  #18 ... + 43 yrds ... Longer 2nd shot, but still pretty manageable birdie depending on the winds.

   

   Bottom line .. Bethpage should be the easiest transition  from TM to Legend. Over 18 holes, BP only plays about 300 yrds longer ( 287 on my chart).  The other totals look a little more scary ... Oakmont ( + 507 yrds) ..St. Andrews ( +590yrds) ..and Kiawah ( +699 yrds)