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Question about the stupidity of the game

• msejnoha 63 Posts

  Tue, Jul 4 2017 3:54 PM

  First, we'll see if this even gets posted. I've got 2 post so that have been in moderation for days and I'm not counting on ever seeing them. It makes me not even want to visit the forums, but here I am anyway. 

   

  So, for the Legend and above players; does it just keep getting more and more stupid as you tier up past Tour Master?  I thought going to Master was bad. What I wouldn't give to be back there. I get making it more difficult as a person gets better. But there's a difference between difficult and dumb. Difficult is longer holes, faster greens, maybe more wind. Dumb is inconsistent wind, inconsistent greens, same clubs playing different at the higher tier.  

   

  Wind first. I don't mind high wind. I just adjust for it. I also know that hitting the ding on my iPad takes an act of god. So I adjust for wind like I'm going to ding and hope that I do. Or at least get close enough. If I shank it bad (which I do at times), that's on me. But lately some 10-12 mph winds have been playing like 20 on some holes. Others, not. 

   

  Now greens. I had a shot recently on an 11 green. 10 foot from the hole, uphill 3". Hit 25% of 40' putter. Blew by 5 foot past the hole. And some are the opposite. 

  The most aggravating, though, has to be the clubs. I have the same clubs as Tour Master that I had as Master. Somehow, though, they play completely different now. The biggest that I notice are the Cleveland wedges. I've rarely used any spin with them because they've always stopped on a dime. But now I get 10-20 yards of roll with them.

  Now I realize that I'm not that good. I also realize that, just like in real life golf, every shot shot is different. Let's take St. Andrews, for example. A person doesn't just go from shooting 28-30 on that course to shooting 37 using the same clubs and balls. The only thing that's changed is moving up a tier. Different tee boxes, but all the par 5s I could reach in two before, I can reach now. The ones I can't reach two are ones I wouldn't be able to no matter what clubs I had. 

   

  And for the love of all that is holy, let's end this moderation debacle already. 

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 5:45 AM

  Wow, where to even start.

  It doesn't get more stupid it gets harder as I assume you've noticed.  Not in that the clubs play differently, but you're back further and the greens are faster.  That's all it is as far as harder goes.  The specs of your clubs and what they do don't change.

  By my calculations, It's about 25% on the 50' scale for that putt.  Something's not quite right with your description of the putt b/c 25% on the 50 should go further than on the 40 so...

  No way the highest level Cleveland wedges (which is what you have) roll out that far.  Not a chance.  Maybe you didn't notice you were in the long rough or sand?

  Bad scores happen.  Shot 70 the other day on Erin among a bunch of pretty good scores.  Can't explain it, just happened.  Things went wrong that round.

  30 posts isn't quite enough to end your moderation if memory serves.  

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 7:26 AM

  msejnoha:

   I thought going to Master was bad. What I wouldn't give to be back there.

  a TourMaster plays from the same tee's a Master does

   

  So, for the Legend and above players; does it just keep getting more and more stupid as you tier up past Tour Master?

  Not stupider, just harder, much harder! If your unhappy at TM, quit now, when you get to Legend you will jump out of a window! The game isn't driver wedge anymore, course management becomes a "huge" factor, along with everything else!

   But lately some 10-12 mph winds have been playing like 20 on some holes. Others, not. 

  Every set of clubs has a "Circle of precision", the better the clubs the smaller the circle..

  what that means is with your clubs, you can ding a shot with perfect power aimed right at the flag with 0 wind, and it might hit the pin, go in the hole, or be 7-8 ft left/right/long/short, and that's hitting it perfect...now assume that you have a 130yd approach with a left to right 12mph crosswind, and you miss the ding "with" the wind and land 22ft right of the pin...well there is nothing wrong at all, that is where you are supposed to be!

   

  Now greens. I had a shot recently on an 11 green. 10 foot from the hole, uphill 3". Hit 25% of 40' putter. Blew by 5 foot past the hole. And some are the opposite.

  If you hit that putt at 10ft of power you wouldn't even get to the hole, so you messed up somewhere...or it was downhill not uphill.

  The most aggravating, though, has to be the clubs. I have the same clubs as Tour Master that I had as Master. Somehow, though, they play completely different now. The biggest that I notice are the Cleveland wedges. I've rarely used any spin with them because they've always stopped on a dime. But now I get 10-20 yards of roll with them.

  Your clubs don't play any different and there are only 2 ways to get a high level Cleveland wedge to roll 10-20yrds, that's full backspin into a back to front slope and that would be hard to do, or land in water that is 10-20yds deep...there is NO way you had a wedge shot "roll out" 30-60ft, totally impossible!

  Hope this helps...and do a search on VEM and how it affects the game as you improve, your not quite there yet...
  

   

   

• gonfission 2,264 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 9:16 AM

  Let me take a stab at this, you guys have answered this a 1000 times.

  fatdan:

  Every set of clubs has a "Circle of precision", the better the clubs the smaller the circle..

  Dan is spot on with this. The clubs also have a "forgiveness" factor. Two circles, that overlap each other. Hitting the ding, is not a guarantee you will land where you think it should. There is a post on these two circles in the older forums, you can use the search feature to the right, as you are reading the forums.

  Type in "forgiveness & precision".

  Picture a set of eye glasses with the lenses removed, and laid atop one another, half way over each other. In the center you will have a small area looking like a vertical ellipse, with the two outer edges of the circles on either side protruding from the center.

  Your ball can land anywhere in those 3 areas, with a dinged shot. The pin being centered, it is easy to be confused, pissed off.

  As you tier up you will notice that missing the ding is going to give you drastically different results, missing it as a Master, Tour Master, & a Legend.

  Be ecstatic that you are a Tour Master. It is the so called, "sweetheart" tier. You can outdrive Legends, and above, all day long. Your missing the ding by 1/2 the thickness of the ding line itself, will get you closer to the hole, than me. I may not be on the green at all.

  If I miss the ding, (as a Legend), on a drive, by a miniscule amount, I may end up slightly in the rough, if my wind calculations were correct.

  Missing it on the greens by the very same minuscule amount, will miss that cup by 3 - 6 inches, on the side of the miss. If missed on the right side of the ding, anywhere you hit from, is going to result in a loss of yardage, or footage on the greens.

  The physics of this game is unrivaled in my opinion. Physics, is my bag, my job, my hobby, & the world we all live in. A little knowledge of it, can go a long way in here.

  If you want something that challenges you, this is it. If you want immediate gratification, every other simulator out there will hand it to you.

  It is frustrating at times, no matter the tier. All the whining done in here, is an act of futility. The person controlling the mouse, or touch screen, has everything to answer for.

  The game has a built in deviation as stated above, (VEM) to make sure the same shot does not land in the same spot every time.

  If you play in real life, you have VEM built into you as well. Unless you can prove to us all, that you can duplicate a single shot.

  Imagine what a pro could do, if he, she, could duplicate every shot.

  So read a bit more about the most frustrating game in town.

  For all that's holy, STAY A TOUR MASTER !

   

• borntobesting 9,751 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 9:38 AM

  msejnoha:

  A person doesn't just go from shooting 28-30 on that course to shooting 37 using the same clubs and balls. The only thing that's changed is moving up a tier.

  Well you didn't go from shooting 28-30's to shooting 37's I went back as far as your score history showed and I only saw 2 scores of  30 and no sub 30 scores.

   

  As for the Top Cleveland wedges rolling out 10 to 20 yards. There are only a couple of things that will cause that.

  1. hitting out of deep rough or sand.

  2 landing on a big slope like at 15 @ BPB

  3. using the punch shot and not adding B/S. That is one of only 2 or 3 instances where you want any more than minimal added B/S.

  Plus are you even paying attention to what you are doing and playing? Because master and tour master both play off the same tee boxes the only differences in the 2 tiers are green speeds which go from very fast stimp 10 to tournament stimp 11. And possibly  heavier wind speeds.

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 2:45 PM

  +1 to everyone who replied. You guys covered it all.  

  To the OP, post on Icons page and ask to be removed from moderation.  It's been done before.

• MistressCosette 4,749 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 3:56 PM

  There is a blog on my profile page that is VERY long, and worth reading for those who want to get better and do some math and understand some physics that are programmed into this game. The blog has taken 3 years to compile (and I still add to it on occasion as I learn new things) and it's VERY long and takes a few weeks of practice or more to master, but there is a long treatise on wind calculations that is worth reading. Of course, some like to go by "feel" but you ultimately do math to work this game properly.  Take it for what it's worth to you, but I've had a lot of positive feedback on it.

  Enjoy.

  MC

• K7JBQ 1,469 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 4:27 PM

  Best post of the year. Says it all.

   

  gonfission:

  Let me take a stab at this, you guys have answered this a 1000 times.

  fatdan:

  Every set of clubs has a "Circle of precision", the better the clubs the smaller the circle..

  Dan is spot on with this. The clubs also have a "forgiveness" factor. Two circles, that overlap each other. Hitting the ding, is not a guarantee you will land where you think it should. There is a post on these two circles in the older forums, you can use the search feature to the right, as you are reading the forums.

  Type in "forgiveness & precision".

  Picture a set of eye glasses with the lenses removed, and laid atop one another, half way over each other. In the center you will have a small area looking like a vertical ellipse, with the two outer edges of the circles on either side protruding from the center.

  Your ball can land anywhere in those 3 areas, with a dinged shot. The pin being centered, it is easy to be confused, pissed off.

  As you tier up you will notice that missing the ding is going to give you drastically different results, missing it as a Master, Tour Master, & a Legend.

  Be ecstatic that you are a Tour Master. It is the so called, "sweetheart" tier. You can outdrive Legends, and above, all day long. Your missing the ding by 1/2 the thickness of the ding line itself, will get you closer to the hole, than me. I may not be on the green at all.

  If I miss the ding, (as a Legend), on a drive, by a miniscule amount, I may end up slightly in the rough, if my wind calculations were correct.

  Missing it on the greens by the very same minuscule amount, will miss that cup by 3 - 6 inches, on the side of the miss. If missed on the right side of the ding, anywhere you hit from, is going to result in a loss of yardage, or footage on the greens.

  The physics of this game is unrivaled in my opinion. Physics, is my bag, my job, my hobby, & the world we all live in. A little knowledge of it, can go a long way in here.

  If you want something that challenges you, this is it. If you want immediate gratification, every other simulator out there will hand it to you.

  It is frustrating at times, no matter the tier. All the whining done in here, is an act of futility. The person controlling the mouse, or touch screen, has everything to answer for.

  The game has a built in deviation as stated above, (VEM) to make sure the same shot does not land in the same spot every time.

  If you play in real life, you have VEM built into you as well. Unless you can prove to us all, that you can duplicate a single shot.

  Imagine what a pro could do, if he, she, could duplicate every shot.

  So read a bit more about the most frustrating game in town.

  For all that's holy, STAY A TOUR MASTER !

   

   

• joemt825 124 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 7:07 PM

  Go back to Tiger Woods golf.  You can even steer the ball in the air on that ridiculous game. 

• whooshdangit 1,246 Posts

  Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:35 PM

  MistressCosette:

  There is a blog on my profile page that is VERY long, and worth reading for those who want to get better and do some math and understand some physics that are programmed into this game. The blog has taken 3 years to compile (and I still add to it on occasion as I learn new things) and it's VERY long and takes a few weeks of practice or more to master, but there is a long treatise on wind calculations that is worth reading. Of course, some like to go by "feel" but you ultimately do math to work this game properly.  Take it for what it's worth to you, but I've had a lot of positive feedback on it.

  Enjoy.

  MC

  Hi Mistress (Po) Cosette

  For anybody wanting to know anything and everything about this game, there's only one place to go. Cancel everything and prepare for a long, long night of reading, sage like nodding and aha! moments.

  It's been an invaluable resource for me, as has your encouragement. I still won't pretend to understand it all but if I can stumble across the gems contained within than so can anybody.
  Thankyou for your commitment to it, and for making it available to everyone.

  MistressCosette:

  it's VERY long and takes a few weeks of practice or more to master

  hmm..  the only point I feel I could debate : ) I'm still learning.

  Still passing on pebbles

  Rich.
  grasshopper