Forums

Just an extemporaneous thought...

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 7:28 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  maoriand1:

  i got u very well yiannis... but u are talking about " the spirit of the game"  or "the game was not meant to be played like that"... are u serious? because if u are serious u lost the last 4 yrs. 

  I am quite serious, yes. Those who are making use of all these stuff have destroyed an excellent game. 

  I'm interested to know your take on mags' calculator vs. spreadsheets?

  Or your take on an aiming ruler vs. simply using the aimer box to aim?

  Can you explain the difference?

  To me...there is none they are one in the same. 

  Or are you including mags as one who has destroyed the game too?  

  If anyone, anyone at all looks at a shot and does some sort of mental calculation in their head for elevation or wind, they are no different from someone who types numbers into a spreadsheet (or a calculator) to get the same answer.  No different at all.  

  So Yiannis...are you saying that you have never ever looked at an elevation change and said to yourself well I need to take elevation / X off of this shot..? 

   

• Yiannis1970 3,305 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 8:29 AM

  It's always the same story. Whenever we try to discuss about something....oops, there's mags in the middle!!

  Did i make any names? NO

  So, what Christopher has to do with this? Are you talking on his behalf? I don't think so..

  For the record i will respond though..no, i don't think fmagnets destroyed this game, not even close.

   

  As for the rest, i hate repeating myself. Have already posted what i think. Just do a trouble and read it again if you like.

• BHenke2 397 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 8:46 AM

  kavvz:

  If anyone, anyone at all looks at a shot and does some sort of mental calculation in their head for elevation or wind, they are no different from someone who types numbers into a spreadsheet (or a calculator) to get the same answer.  No different at all.  

  Doing basic calculations in your head or using a calculator to do them is not even close to using a spread sheet where every single bit of information is input. I am with Yiannis on this. If you take away peoples spreadsheets and rulers then forced them to do play against people who do it in their head or with a calculator the people who have used spreadsheets for years would not be able to compete on a regular basis. 

• el3n1 4,502 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 9:44 AM

  BHenke2:

  Doing basic calculations in your head or using a calculator to do them is not even close to using a spread sheet where every single bit of information is input.

  Uhm... i would be fine with someone giving me the holy grail of spreadsheets, but nothing i put together is anything more than basic calculator functions.  I know how it was put together and i replicate it on a calculater when playing mobile... the claim above seems like an exaggeration to an extent.  

  I stated earlier in this thread it is possible some people have created much more advanced spreadsheets but while learning and researching wgt.. calculations, spreadsheets appeared in the forum from nearly the time the game was released... things like rulers or using grid lines or aim box as means to adjust for wind also was utilized.  This stuff is not new if it has been around for years.. 

  But i do understand the pressure or challenge this game can put on players to feel like you have to play flawless to have a chance... it is crazy, it isnt realistic that you have to strive for 18 under... when 59 is basically the coveted score in real golf that is rarely achieved.

  I will add one example but there are plenty of others -- no spreadsheet or calculations have helped me figure out how to land and hold the front of the green on Chambers Bay #1 in heavy winds and C13 or C14 greens.  I tested and tried various approaches, various levels of balls, and sometimes you just need to get lucky and have the right wind and maybe some good helping VEM.  Because it can just play tough most of the time.  Spreadsheet or not... you need to learn what or how best to give yourself a chance to have a look at birdie.

• krskfr 458 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 12:06 PM

  Yiannis1970:

  I am quite serious, yes. Those who are making use of all these stuff have destroyed an excellent game. Perhaps i lost the last 4 years but you have probably lost the whole idea of this game which is personal ability to play well, have fun and get better.

   

  wholly agree, there's one player in particular who quits this game every few months (because he gets so upset he can't win everything, then goes about calling the winners, cheaters lol), he is the most miserable person i've ever seen ( and yes he utilizes spreadsheets, calculator, and may or may not have a drinking problem. Obviously it's against the terms and conditions to disclose this person's name, but it just symbolic of how one lives vicariously through this game, and equate how well he does performance wise here, for his self-worth in actuality. This is highly dangerous, and i implore this person to get help, if he needs to reach out to me ( i have a degree in psych), i would be happy to aid in whatever capacity possible. Cheers!

• BOZskills 410 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 5:22 PM

  Yiannis,ever hear of hand eye coordination? That is where any individual player can overcome any equipment deficit,that's physical talent! That's why the auto dinger is cheating!! Spread sheets are not even close(ps i play by feel!!!).

• BOZskills 410 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 5:27 PM

  I'm with you 100%! More fun playing by feel. The spredsheet, calculator ,mouse clicking crowd mize well be performing data entry!

• BOZskills 410 Posts

  Sat, Jul 20 2019 5:46 PM

  Yiannis,please accept my apology for my first post. We are apparently on the same side of this debate!! Additionally,i don't have any animus toward the spreadsheeters,just think it takes the fun out of the game. Kudos to the op best discussion in the forums in quite awhile!!

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 7:33 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  It's always the same story. Whenever we try to discuss about something....oops, there's mags in the middle!!

  Did i make any names? NO

  So, what Christopher has to do with this? Are you talking on his behalf? I don't think so..

  For the record i will respond though..no, i don't think fmagnets destroyed this game, not even close.

  As for the rest, i hate repeating myself. Have already posted what i think. Just do a trouble and read it again if you like.

  I didn't think mags would mind me pointing out that he uses a calculator to play and to draw comparisons to others that do mathematical things to calculate shots.  If mags minds then there's endless other players who pop up windows calc on their screens that I could use, but I thought since he's one of the best on here he was the perfect example.  

  That you didn't mention any names is relevant how?  

  OP wouldn't answer this question, but maybe you will.  Do you consider a calculator an aid? 

  If mags didn't destroy the game (like you say), but he still calculates his shots what gives?  

  Is it ok to type numbers into a calculator to get an answer, but you've ruined the game if you type numbers into a spreadsheet to get an answer.  

  Continuing..

  It's ok to use the aid of the aim box to aim because that's just "feel", but it's not ok to make a ruler that has 10 markers equal to the width of that aimer box and use that to aim?   Those rulers ruin the game...

  One more...

  It's ok to approximate ("feel"?) a wind direction with your eye and input that into a calculator to adjust your shot (which I suspect mags does on that casio), but it's not ok to use a compass to get the exact wind direction, input that into a spreadsheet to adjust your shot.

  We begin to see a pattern...

  Aids are simply shortcuts to do the same thing one of the best players on here does.  No different..that mags does it so well is a testament to him.   Even if mags' calcs are off a bit, he's such a good putter he makes up for it.

   

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 7:38 AM

  el3n1:

  BHenke2:

  Doing basic calculations in your head or using a calculator to do them is not even close to using a spread sheet where every single bit of information is input.

  Uhm... i would be fine with someone giving me the holy grail of spreadsheets, but nothing i put together is anything more than basic calculator functions.  I know how it was put together and i replicate it on a calculater when playing mobile... the claim above seems like an exaggeration to an extent.  

  I stated earlier in this thread it is possible some people have created much more advanced spreadsheets but while learning and researching wgt.. calculations, spreadsheets appeared in the forum from nearly the time the game was released... things like rulers or using grid lines or aim box as means to adjust for wind also was utilized.  This stuff is not new if it has been around for years.. 

  But i do understand the pressure or challenge this game can put on players to feel like you have to play flawless to have a chance... it is crazy, it isnt realistic that you have to strive for 18 under... when 59 is basically the coveted score in real golf that is rarely achieved.

  I will add one example but there are plenty of others -- no spreadsheet or calculations have helped me figure out how to land and hold the front of the green on Chambers Bay #1 in heavy winds and C13 or C14 greens.  I tested and tried various approaches, various levels of balls, and sometimes you just need to get lucky and have the right wind and maybe some good helping VEM.  Because it can just play tough most of the time.  Spreadsheet or not... you need to learn what or how best to give yourself a chance to have a look at birdie.

  Ty Ed, Henke's claim is nothing short of ridiculous and I think you've underscored that nicely. 

  No doubt people have advanced spreadsheets and in my mind that's admirable that they've 1) taken the time to do so, and 2) that it works so well.   I don't think it an exaggeration to say that the players on the PGA would use every aid possible within the rules to gain an advantage.  Since Excel isn't illegal, these players are smart and haven't ruined the game at all.  

  RE: Chambers #1:   You gotta land short and run it up just right.  There's a super small landing area for it to roll down the green.  Obvi. headwinds or tailwinds would affect that landing spot.   I've only gotten close once or twice there...its super hard.