I have birdied #17 several times, very rarely par this hole. It is usually a double bogey. This is the hole that has kept me from having 18 GIR's and 18 fairways hit. Every single time I have played 18 here, this hole has killed me. I even back off the drive to stay in the fairway, and it still finds the rough. This is on my bucket list, to get even with old Nbr17. I have conquered old nbr 7, but that's a different story, has something to do with Lynchburg, Tenn.