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Random Winds in Singleplay POLL

Thu, Apr 19 2012 11:23 AM (45 replies)
  • Kriztjan
    1,437 Posts
    Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:25 AM

    Fellow junkies, i just did a simple spreadsheet that you all can access and write down your name and vote on winds in singleplay tourneys.

     

    Please write down name, followed by the number 1 under the column that you vote on.

     

    Random Winds in Singleplay Tournaments POLL

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Wed, Dec 21 2011 4:42 AM

    Good idea, thanks, and I'm glad also that you have specified single play tournaments only

    If we get fixed winds I'll enter the 2K RG at St Andrews

    PS, if its still random I may still enter but I'd like the following

    tailwind on 2,4,5,9,10,12,13,14,17 and 18 cos I reckon I'm on my way to a good score, if I get headwinds on those I'm probably quitting around #14 lol

  • BolloxInBruges
    1,389 Posts
    Wed, Dec 21 2011 7:33 AM

    Having the same winds for everyone is only going to favor the very top players.  If everyone has the same wind the majority of  the field in a HS rg will have absolutely no chance of winning.  Most people need the random winds to have  chance.  I don't understand the argument for same winds for all unless you are someone that plays  1 rg a month where it is going to take years and years for the variance to even out.    If you are playing multiple RGs a day, the variance is going to even out pretty quickly.

    Its just like  a poker touranment, just because you're the best player doesn't mean you will win, you may be dealt 23 offsuit all day while Johnny Luckbox to your left gets AA every other hand.   While if everyone were to get an exactly even distribution of cards somehow, only the absolute best players could ever win.  Think of it this way, chess has almost no luck element, so if you have inferior skill you probably lose, and competitive chess doesn't get a whole lot of attention.  Poker any idiot can win (due to variance such as random winds),  every *** wanted to be like Chris Moneymaker and turn 40$ into 2.5 million,  and he certainly was a beneficiary of variance as it was the only way he had a chance.

    In conclusion, if you're not one of the absolute best, you better be careful what you ask for.

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Wed, Dec 21 2011 8:05 AM

    BolloxInBruges:

    Having the same winds for everyone is only going to favor the very top players.  If everyone has the same wind the majority of  the field in a HS rg will have absolutely no chance of winning.  Most people need the random winds to have  chance.  I don't understand the argument for same winds for all unless you are someone that plays  1 rg a month where it is going to take years and years for the variance to even out.    If you are playing multiple RGs a day, the variance is going to even out pretty quickly.

    Its just like  a poker touranment, just because you're the best player doesn't mean you will win, you may be dealt 23 offsuit all day while Johnny Luckbox to your left gets AA every other hand.   While if everyone were to get an exactly even distribution of cards somehow, only the absolute best players could ever win.  Think of it this way, chess has almost no luck element, so if you have inferior skill you probably lose, and competitive chess doesn't get a whole lot of attention.  Poker any idiot can win (due to variance such as random winds),  every *** wanted to be like Chris Moneymaker and turn 40$ into 2.5 million,  and he certainly was a beneficiary of variance as it was the only way he had a chance.

    In conclusion, if you're not one of the absolute best, you better be careful what you ask for.

    x2

    I've said from the start, random winds is what makes the tournaments so unpredictable, same wind = same 10% winning every tournament.  In 2 round championships, if you get horrid winds first rounds, i can guarantee you the winds for 2nd round will be favourable! Keep it random, its what makes the tournaments so interesting!

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 12:02 AM

    BolloxInBruges:

    Having the same winds for everyone is only going to favor the very top players.  If everyone has the same wind the majority of  the field in a HS rg will have absolutely no chance of winning.  Most people need the random winds to have  chance.  I don't understand the argument for same winds for all unless you are someone that plays  1 rg a month where it is going to take years and years for the variance to even out.    If you are playing multiple RGs a day, the variance is going to even out pretty quickly.

    Its just like  a poker touranment, just because you're the best player doesn't mean you will win, you may be dealt 23 offsuit all day while Johnny Luckbox to your left gets AA every other hand.   While if everyone were to get an exactly even distribution of cards somehow, only the absolute best players could ever win.  Think of it this way, chess has almost no luck element, so if you have inferior skill you probably lose, and competitive chess doesn't get a whole lot of attention.  Poker any idiot can win (due to variance such as random winds),  every *** wanted to be like Chris Moneymaker and turn 40$ into 2.5 million,  and he certainly was a beneficiary of variance as it was the only way he had a chance.

    In conclusion, if you're not one of the absolute best, you better be careful what you ask for.

    I guess we all have our opinions, but to me you're saying that random winds means that the skill factor the better players have can be negated - how can that be right in a skill based game?

    It may even itself out over time, but if I get poor winds in a 2K tournament and good winds in a 100cr tournament that is not evening itself out - I played five 500cr RG's and I got 5 really bad sets of wind which at my level put me outside breaking even or getting my money back - if I knew everyone was shooting the same conditions I'd have been happier with my scores

    Not everyone has a 'credit pot,' and to use the credit card and gamble $20 in a tournament on the basis you may get a good wind is a gamble a lot of folks probably wont make.  Especially in the new 2K at St Andrews, even in moderate winds you or I can reel off at least 8 or 9 holes where a good wind will give you a much better chance of birdie/eagle than a headwind, given the winds I would like I reckon without much effort I could be -7 or -8 and I'd take any wind on the remaining 9 holes, if you put a 25mph headwind on those holes then I would not be so confident and may be happy with -4 which with the payout system would probably mean I'm loosing money

    Its a topic that constantly comes up - so why can't WGT put some RG's on that are fixed, that would make everyone happy, have a tab on the RG screen, random Rg's, Fixed wind RG's, more revenue for WGT, more RG's for us to play, everyone happy

  • GlassMan27
    573 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 6:50 AM

    chrisironsbones:
    In 2 round championships, if you get horrid winds first rounds, i can guarantee you the winds for 2nd round will be favourable!

    Not everyone sees it that way, that's the issue. I, personally (and I'm sure I'm not alone), have had runs of single-play tourneys where it seems like everything from strangely high numbers of 'edge-cases' to 'the beast' and even the wind direction is working against me, round after round... And if those rounds are evened out by a couple of good unlimited games or practice rounds, then nothing is truly evened out. On the flip side, I've had runs where it seems like I just can't miss. It's just frustrating when the bad-luck runs come when playing for money (credits). Either side of the random winds can be argued, which is why I think its a good idea for players to have the option of fixed or random wind tournaments. If, as stated above, the fixed winds really do benefit only the best-of-the-best (which is a very valid point), players will quickly realize that and go back to the good 'ol random winds. Bottom line... you're never gonna please everyone.

  • cycle1979
    1,555 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 1:01 PM

    I'm not quite sure that the "fixed" winds would benefit the best-of-the-best.  By fixing the winds it doesn't mean that the winds stay the same every time you play the tournament.  It just levels the playing field for that specific tournament.   In poker terms... everyone starts with the same amount of chips!

  • b0geybuster
    2,574 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 1:08 PM

    cycle1979:

    I'm not quite sure that the "fixed" winds would benefit the best-of-the-best.  By fixing the winds it doesn't mean that the winds stay the same every time you play the tournament.  It just levels the playing field for that specific tournament.   In poker terms... everyone starts with the same amount of chips!

    But with that said, these winds would not stay hidden for long, so with this information before they go out, they will benefit and win more.   They would know exacly how to approach each hole and what to hit, barring any huge misses.

    Cheers,

    b0gey

     

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 1:43 PM

    b0geybuster:

    But with that said, these winds would not stay hidden for long, so with this information before they go out, they will benefit and win more.   They would know exacly how to approach each hole and what to hit, barring any huge misses.

    Cheers,

    b0gey

     

    Not sure it's the info that would be an issue, I'm sure the top players know how to approach al the holes under any conditions, regardless.

    What BiB is saying, the top players will out score on a consistent basis, the rest of the field whether say all holes are downwind or headwind.

    He has a point.

  • jakestanfill7
    949 Posts
    Thu, Dec 22 2011 2:12 PM

    BolloxInBruges:
    Having the same winds for everyone is only going to favor the very top players.  If everyone has the same wind the majority of  the field in a HS rg will have absolutely no chance of winning.  Most people need the random winds to have  chance.  I don't understand the argument for same winds for all unless you are someone that plays  1 rg a month where it is going to take years and years for the variance to even out.    If you are playing multiple RGs a day, the variance is going to even out pretty quickly.

    I agree on a lot of fronts Bollox, but I've suggested for a while that winds vary in direction max of 30 to 60 degrees which is fairly typical of what you might see on the real course.  Vary the speeds too, I'd even like to see the wind vary and gust or die mid shot some more.

    What I'm sick of is getting headwinds on every single hole.  Have had that happen well over 50 times in career and less than 5 rounds with all tailwinds so from my experience it absolutely doesn't even out.  Twice in the last 4 tries I've had all headwinds in the Best of Front Nine 500 credit Ready Go.  I'm eliminated from the tourney from the onset because there are 3 holes I have no shot of reaching for birdie and the eagle hole is out of range too. 

    I love playing in the toughest conditions, but if WGT wants to hand out punishing windsets, they should replicate a similar experience for everyone in that tourney.  Change it up YES.  Make the wind conditions calmer for certain fraction of the players.  Just make the prevailing winds similar like real life is all I would ask.

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