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Random Winds in Singleplay POLL

• cm68 892 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 2:27 PM

  ForrestLeigh:

  Good idea, thanks, and I'm glad also that you have specified single play tournaments only

  If we get fixed winds I'll enter the 2K RG at St Andrews

  PS, if its still random I may still enter but I'd like the following

  tailwind on 2,4,5,9,10,12,13,14,17 and 18 cos I reckon I'm on my way to a good score, if I get headwinds on those I'm probably quitting around #14 lol

  Seems to me that there is small handfull of people out there who really don't have a clue...

  I don't mean to single out the author of the quote in my reply here but based on this particular comment I cant figure out why in hell any of you are still playing???

  If we all approached life with this type of attitude nothing would ever get done and we'd still all be living in caves. 

  Where's your sense of adventure???  Half the fun is getting to a course that puts you out of your comfort zone, having a crack at it and learning how to deal with the unknown.  That's how we learn...

  I suggest people just take this "game" for what is and just enjoy the variety presented each time they sign up for a round.  After all it is just a GAME...

  To the guys & girls who put thie site (WGT) together... thanks and keep up the good work because there are a lot of people who appreciate your efforts ;-)

  Merry xmas to everyone involved in the world of WGT.

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 2:52 PM

  What Bollox wrote makes a lot sense. In theory, if you play a lot under high winds conditions, everything should even out. However, in practice, this could not be the case as pointed out by Jake. 

  But in any case, there are events that one cannot play much often like Majors or this Fall Tour. For such big events, high wind should be similar for everyone in my opinion because one has only two rounds and statistically it's far from enough to make things even out. The British Open and the November Fall Tour Championship were two examples where the wind set was crucial (together with a good level of play of course). A good wind set is not enough to make you win, but a bad set is enough to make you lose (at least for high winds on STA and RSG).

  Regards

• jakestanfill7 949 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 6:00 PM

  Very well said genorb.  I totally agree.

• BolloxInBruges 1,389 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 6:52 PM

  ForrestLeigh:

  I guess we all have our opinions, but to me you're saying that random winds means that the skill factor the better players have can be negated - how can that be right in a skill based game?

   

  To the first part of the question, random winds can absolutely negate a skill advantage in the short term if you get an unfavorable set of winds.   2nd part, it is based on skill, meaning skill is the primary factory, but short term luck is also an element.  Another analogy, say you drop 100 balls 100 yards away from the flag on a WGT hole,with no wind and no slope to the green.   Now say you ding all 100 shots with the same amount of power, of those 100 just one went in the hole.  Does that mean that you displayed more skill on the one that went in vs the other 99 that missed due to random deviation that is built in?  No matter what they do with the wind there is always going to be factors other than skill that play a role in the score of each particular round.

• BolloxInBruges 1,389 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 6:59 PM

  genorb:

  What Bollox wrote makes a lot sense. In theory, if you play a lot under high winds conditions, everything should even out. However, in practice, this could not be the case as pointed out by Jake. 

  But in any case, there are events that one cannot play much often like Majors or this Fall Tour. For such big events, high wind should be similar for everyone in my opinion because one has only two rounds and statistically it's far from enough to make things even out. The British Open and the November Fall Tour Championship were two examples where the wind set was crucial (together with a good level of play of course). A good wind set is not enough to make you win, but a bad set is enough to make you lose (at least for high winds on STA and RSG).

  Regards

  I do certainly agree with you that having only a couple majors a year isn't enough of a sample size for variance to even out.   But by the same token, a virtual major championship is far less prestigious than their real life counterpart.  In real life it is definitely possible to lose a major championship (especially the Open) due to your tee time draw and the corresponding wind set you receive as a result of it.

   

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 8:23 PM

  I wonder if WGT can make a "same set of winds" RG?  If possible, maybe they could do some test runs on some single play tourneys, fee, or RG...and let's see what happens.  Run some "same wind set" tourneys for a month and let's see.

   

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Thu, Dec 22 2011 9:29 PM

  Wind is interesting here and in real life. I played at my club the other day and winds were gusting around 40+mph. I average around 230 with tee ball, but caught a tail wind and smoked one about 330...a couple of holes later, caught a monster headwind and nutted my driver about 135. Wind is fun.

• ForrestLeigh 264 Posts

  Fri, Dec 23 2011 12:27 AM

  cm68:

  ForrestLeigh:

  Good idea, thanks, and I'm glad also that you have specified single play tournaments only

  If we get fixed winds I'll enter the 2K RG at St Andrews

  PS, if its still random I may still enter but I'd like the following

  tailwind on 2,4,5,9,10,12,13,14,17 and 18 cos I reckon I'm on my way to a good score, if I get headwinds on those I'm probably quitting around #14 lol

   

  Seems to me that there is small handfull of people out there who really don't have a clue...

  I don't mean to single out the author of the quote in my reply here but based on this particular comment I cant figure out why in hell any of you are still playing???

  If we all approached life with this type of attitude nothing would ever get done and we'd still all be living in caves. 

  Where's your sense of adventure???  Half the fun is getting to a course that puts you out of your comfort zone, having a crack at it and learning how to deal with the unknown.  That's how we learn...

  I suggest people just take this "game" for what is and just enjoy the variety presented each time they sign up for a round.  After all it is just a GAME...

  To the guys & girls who put thie site (WGT) together... thanks and keep up the good work because there are a lot of people who appreciate your efforts ;-)

  Merry xmas to everyone involved in the world of WGT.

  I'll tell you what, don't single me out then, but if you do here are a few thoughts

  Play in these tournaments - you spend $20 and then I might listen to your opinion on how they should be run and how wind affects the round

  Make Legend and then see how it affects your game

  Play more than 144 ranked rounds and I might value something you have to say

  get a sense of humour - the 'I'd like these winds line' was that, a line, I'm not expecting those winds

  and it seem to me that you are in fact one of those small handfull of people out there who really don't have a clue..

  and merry xmas to you to

• ForrestLeigh 264 Posts

  Fri, Dec 23 2011 12:35 AM

  BolloxInBruges:

  ForrestLeigh:

  I guess we all have our opinions, but to me you're saying that random winds means that the skill factor the better players have can be negated - how can that be right in a skill based game?

   

  To the first part of the question, random winds can absolutely negate a skill advantage in the short term if you get an unfavorable set of winds.   2nd part, it is based on skill, meaning skill is the primary factory, but short term luck is also an element.  Another analogy, say you drop 100 balls 100 yards away from the flag on a WGT hole,with no wind and no slope to the green.   Now say you ding all 100 shots with the same amount of power, of those 100 just one went in the hole.  Does that mean that you displayed more skill on the one that went in vs the other 99 that missed due to random deviation that is built in?  No matter what they do with the wind there is always going to be factors other than skill that play a role in the score of each particular round.

  The 99 that missed I would be ok with, and if you and I played 100 balls each trying to hit the ding I'd expect you to hit more nearer the flag than I would - because you're the better, or more skilled player. 

  That to me is how life is - there are always those who are better - the others strive for that, random deviation does its job but it still allows the more skilled to win. 

  Your deviation may put you 8 yards from the pin, I don't have deviation on my shot and I'm 4 yards away - even with deviation you still have a putt as I do.

  The wind however removes or can remove that element from the equation - on a 500+ yd par 4 I can putt for birdie with tailwind, you can't get to the green with a headwind.

  If I'm going to beat you I don't want to do it that way

• ForrestLeigh 264 Posts

  Fri, Dec 23 2011 12:37 AM

  chrisironsbones:

  In 2 round championships, if you get horrid winds first rounds, i can guarantee you the winds for 2nd round will be favourable!

  I'm so not convinced this is the case, sorry