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Lack Of Backspin

• skccvb 799 Posts

  Thu, Mar 22 2012 3:00 PM

  slmpickins:

  So the 38yd shot I tried shooting it for 45yds to back up, stopped instead of backup because it's a partial swing from a 60yd iron? Only shoot for a 50yd shot so it will back up from a full swing from a 60yd iron?

  That is correct - the correct 'shot' to make would be using 64 degree Cleveland (rated at 60 yards) using :"Punch" mode (rated 50 yards) at about 80% power - backspin or topspin optional, and factoring lie, wind and elevation. Personally I use backspin on partial punch shots with this club from green-side bunkers most of the time. 

  The ONLY scenario where you COULD attempt what you were trying to do is if the shot distance were say 50 yards or a bit longer - you COULD apply full shot, full backspin, have it land past the hole, and spin back. But WHY would you when it is a simple full punch shot with the same club, predictable distance, stops on a dime?? The punch shot at 50 yards you can count on virtually every time. The full bs, full shot is completely unpredictable - you MIGHT get it close, but you also could end up anywhere between well past the hole or you could land past the hole and spin back off the green!!

• skccvb 799 Posts

  Thu, Mar 22 2012 3:15 PM

  PS - on some situations you might want to execute the 38 yard shot as a flop with your 56 degree Cleveland wedge (rated at 38 yards) - most times an 80% (approx) punch shot with the 64 is the easiest to pull off as there is no 'roll' to speak of out of a good lie --whereas with a flop, you can and usually do get roll, although it can be limited with backspin applied. The punch shot out of up to rough or sand (again depending on how bad the ball is buried) is a situation where backspin is useful as well, to stop it where it lands. Like all finesse short game shots - practice is the key to consistency. 

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Thu, Mar 22 2012 4:49 PM

  skccvb:

  These wedges will not spin back on partial shots, punches, flops, pitches, or chips - as a general rule. Only on full shots at least 90%

  I respectfully disagree with you here, sk. Full back spin will stop them while partial bs causes high gear reverse. The landing plane and the wind direction have a huge impact on how a spun ball acts after landing.

  Once the spinning ball hits the green it will take off in the same direction as the wind. Watch it next time. Then factor in how level the landing area is because if you land on a side slope and the wind is blowing you're going for a ride. SA#2 is a great example. With the wind blowing at you you can get the ball to spin back up and over that hill after landing near the pin! Pictures and more discussion here.

  Here's a couple of pictures to demonstrate. They're both on the same hole at SA. The first one is a 64w punch with 1/2 bs (Callaway s ball.) The second one is the same shot with full back spin. Note the direction of the draw in the first picture and the wind.

  

• renniw52 5,385 Posts

  Thu, Mar 22 2012 5:02 PM

  Of late this game makes my head spin, more than my ball. But that is just me, you all can ignore any comment I make. I don't even know who approved this message.

• skccvb 799 Posts

  Thu, Mar 22 2012 7:13 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Full back spin will stop them while partial bs causes high gear reverse.

  Far be it from me to challenge your knowledge here YJ - I guess i was speaking to a 'normal' shot in average conditions. Straightforward in other words. These examples on SA deserve a place called "Uh - not ur usual challenge here-proceed with caution". Honestly? Your advice is so hole specific as to be confusing to the average Joe on here. The part about spin going in direction of wind IS helpful to all. The other begins to move in the direction (pun intended) of TMI. This ain't Legend Superstar training class in this thread. LOL It's about using high level Cleveland wedges without shootin' yourself in the foot. IM experience, partial bs is not as evil as you describe under most conditions - and again I urge folks to use spin on these wedges WITH EXTREME CAUTION. Your earlier advice to just use partial shots in lieu of any bs was sage for most. The average M/TM Joe just cannot grasp the subtleties (and surprises) of bs on these wedges to recommend to them (and me under many situations) to "Just Say No" . lol

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Mar 23 2012 5:31 AM

  skccvb:

  Your advice is so hole specific as to be confusing to the average Joe on here.

  Good post, sk, although I'm still disagreeing here only because what I showed was purposefully done on a flat green so I could take the slope of out play. This was just to show how radical the differences can be in spinning the ball after landing.

  What hasn't been mentioned is what spin does to distances before the ball hits the ground AND what deviation does to missed hits on balls with spin. Any kind of backspin into a wind is going to knock the shot down in a hurry. Using back spin and missing the ding also causes bad deviations. That's where your "extreme caution" is great advice and why I originally said for the OP to stop using it for a while to see how the clubs work.