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Bethpage Black

• cricketrules 1,050 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 9:55 AM

  TheAceFactor:

   When they had the US Open at Beth # 7 was played as a par 4 instead of a par 5 and has been a 4 since.   ???  

  So are you saying that if I went to play Bethpage in real life today, #7 would be a par 5 as it is only a par 4 for the US Open?

  If this is the case, I see no reason for it to be a par 4 on here, unless it is being played as the Virtual US Open course or maybe in a tournament.

  I have nothing against this hole being a par 4 - it's the same for everybody, the course is supposed to be difficult and the hole is the longest par 4 in US Open history.

  I feel as if the issue is part of a much bigger one regarding the development of the game of golf as a whole - longer hitting, longer holes, longer rounds.

  Personally, I don't agree with long par 4s, but if the people at Bethpage disagree, it's not for me to change.

  I would just like to see the course play as it would in real life. Whether that be with a par 4 7th or a par 5 7th.

  Jack.

   

• SgtDoodles 3,112 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 9:57 AM

  deandidthis:

  The 7th definitely should be a Par 5.

  This course was designed for the best golfers in real life. Being a dogleg hole, players like Lee Westwood hit a 300 yard drive, leaving a 240 yard 2nd shot. He can hit that distance with a 3 iron, so what is an unreachable hole in 2 for us is a par hole for him. 

  Pre-US Open the hole was a par 5. They had to make the course difficult so they made it a par 4. The hole would be too easy as a par 5. 

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:05 AM

  Besides, par is an arbitrary number. What ultimately counts is that everyone is playing the same course and everyone turns in a score for the whole round. If the 7th is so hard that lots of people make 5, then you haven't lost a stroke on the field. In match play, the only thing that counts is that you take fewer strokes than your opponent. Par could be 100 for all it matters.

• Doublemochaman 2,009 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:14 AM

  The Bethpage Black scorecard shows the 7th as a par 5, at 502 yards.  But from the back tees it is 553 yeards.  Curious as to why the USGA in the Open didn't leave it a par 5 and let the pros (and top amateurs) play from there?

  Other than that, Bethpage was first introduced here on WGT as a U.S. Open course and has remained so ever since.  Ahh, the good ol' days when we had to play it with the starter driver... before any other clubs were offered.

  For those of you who joined after the summer of 2009 try that sometime... play it with starter clubs, from the championship tees.  Good luck on carrying the rough on #5.

  A course like this is why I think they invented the double gin & tonic.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 11:02 AM

  Mocha, if it was really stretched out and played as a true 3-shot hole, perhaps the USGA felt it would not offer much drama as a par 5. The tee shot is challenging, but after that it is a straight shot down to the green with no obstacles to deal with and no risk/reward calculation that has to be made.

• piztaker 5,743 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 11:15 AM

  It's the same for everybody so what does it matter?

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 12:43 PM

  piztaker:

  It's the same for everybody so what does it matter?

  I'll tell ya why... because of the -7s I have shot there that would be -8s if that was a par 5 :p

  It doesn't matter at all in any way.  In competition, it plays the same for everyone, and in solo play, the par value of the hole wouldn't change the number of strokes it takes to finish it, so wouldn't affect your average at all.  The only reason it would matter in the slightest is for people that like to see big negative numbers on their screen, and -8 looks better than -7.  But, for practical reasons, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

  Number 9 at Congressional (and one of the par 5s at Oakmont) is a crazy 630+ yards.  Should that be made a par 6?

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 12:46 PM

  As for #4, definitely a par 5.  I have eagled it twice I think.  Once a blast from the front sand, and the only time I ever held that green in two, I landed on fringe and rolled up to 3'.  Otherwise, it's definitely an on-in-three hole, especially from the Legend tees.

• TheAceFactor 2,147 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 12:54 PM

  zagraniczniak:

  straight shot down to the green with no obstacles to deal with and no risk/reward calculation that has to be made.

  The person the cut the pin early this morning may disagree with you on that one.    lol

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Mon, Sep 19 2011 1:26 PM

  TheAceFactor:

  The person the cut the pin early this morning may disagree with you on that one.

  Fair(way) enough. That pin location tucked among the bunkers ain't easy and would best be approached with a wedge. Still, there's nothing in the middle of the hole to avoid (lay up behind): rough, sand, water, elevation....