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At last! An Uneven Lies tourney... but...

• MBaggese 15,368 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 4:04 PM

  Shots going near sideways from fairway lies (BPB #2) just don't happen in real life...not that I have played USGA Open courses, but many a "mountain" and "Goat" course in my day...for a ball to shoot left at a 45 degree angle...when "dinged" compared to real life you would be on such a severe slope, you could not stand...and more than likely on such a severe slope the ball would have rolled down to the bottom/side of the fairway.

   

  I have no complaints about balls going left/right 20-30 feet form target when say..150 yards, these can be compensated for.

   

  I also have no issues now needing to take a full club to get out of a 10/15% greenside bunker lie..all's good, but I think only real die hard gamers will be able to work out the goofy side slope lies and be repeatable to a degree.

  It reminds me of throwing a paper airplane outside in a 30 MPH wind.

   

  Honestly I don't want it easy, but somewhat realistic would be nice:)

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 4:17 PM

  Ah you mean like this Mike;

  

  I aimed at the black arrow, the pin is at the white and note the wind direction and strength. I dinged the shot and missed the green on the left by 7/8 yards.

  This is where the work needs to be done, on the more severe examples of ball above, below your feet.

• MBaggese 15,368 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 4:22 PM

  Yep..very similar...although I was on the fairway (95 from pin or so)..my yardage loss seemed about the same, i think my shot went about 70 yards

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 4:41 PM

  I see what you guys are saying but once you play like a couple hundred rounds of uneven lies, you just play the ground as it is. I would have aimed WAY more right and hit more club.  One thing I do is not bother about how severe my aim has to be or how it compares to anything. i just make the adjustments and hit the ball. It ends up a geography exam(reading the lie) followed by a geometry exam(moving the aimer to adjust).

  Keep in mind every single shot off an uphill lie will always come up short unless you make an adjustment for distance. Can't fight it, just make the adjustment.

   

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 4:51 PM

  I realise this Cerino which is why I ask the question, is this an attempt to make the game more difficult or an attempt to make it realistic as well as more difficult?

• MBaggese 15,368 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 5:10 PM

  CerinoDevoti:

  I would have aimed WAY more right and hit more club.

   

  Well sure, we know that now:)

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 5:35 PM

  tiffer67:

  I realise this Cerino which is why I ask the question, is this an attempt to make the game more difficult or an attempt to make it realistic as well as more difficult?

  "My opinion" would be an attempt to make it realistic as well as more difficult. More realistic lies in the fairways and especially the bunkers  is naturally way more difficult.

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 5:37 PM

  MBaggese:

  CerinoDevoti:

  I would have aimed WAY more right and hit more club.

   Well sure, we know that now:)

  I know a Sicilian proverb I'd like to write but you probably know it as well. ;-)

• Corwyn 2,410 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 5:39 PM

  tiffer67:

  I realise this Cerino which is why I ask the question, is this an attempt to make the game more difficult or an attempt to make it realistic as well as more difficult?

  It's a great question, Tiffer!

  I think sometimes we get hung up on whether every innovation here is realistic or not. I'm far more interested in whether it adds to the gameplay.

  Here's a post I wrote in an earlier thread (10 days to go...) on the subject of realism and uneven lies:

   

  Corwyn:

  Just to clarify, ... I was not making a case for Uneven Lies based on their realism... my argument is primarily about the enhanced gameplay they offer. I'm asking that people play at least a dozen rounds with it (in the revised version) before offering their opinion.

  I have to say I remember playing links courses in Scotland and getting lies in which I did have to make a substantial aiming adjustment to get it to go in the right direction (but of course, that may have had something to do with my dreadful swing!)

  I think the main point about lack of realism that's barely been mentioned is to do with ball flight. A sidehill lie doesn't just cause the ball to head off to the left/right. It's likely to cause a ball flight that curves as a hook/slice. And yes, that is (currently) missing.

  [Looking at the graphic used in WGT's ads for Unevens as an example I'd say that was far from a minor Uneven Lie in real life...]

  ...  it's arguable that WGT are almost obliged to exaggerate the effect in order to have enough impact on the gameplay. As it is now, the feature has so little effect on the gameplay on courses like Kiawah and Bethpage, with so many near flat fairways, that there's no point in organizing an Unevens tourney involving those courses. 

  [Funny that I wrote this at the beginning of the month, now that WGT are using these very 2 courses are part of their initial tourneys!]

  Corwyn:

  So if the goal was to introduce a feature that offers a new challenge to jaded players, that makes you develop a 'feel' for a shot rather than just calculate the factors, that forces you to consider risk/reward more, then WGT 'nailed' it. It's great as it is.

  And the capability is already within the game to miss the ding right or left 'into' the lie to give added control. Yes, draw/fade would be a lovely addition, but IMO they're not required for an Unevens roll-out.

  BUT

  ... having said all that, if you want to bring the whole topic of realism into this, I think there is actually a very strong case to be made for Uneven Lies as being realistic... at least far more realistic than Flat Lies (which should be called Artificial Lies IMO).

  Where's the realism in hitting a tee shot at Royal St. George's or St Andrew's and watching it bound along over bumps and hollows, rolling from side to side en route, only to end up in a perfectly flat pristine lie on the fairway? The primary challenge of Olympic is its vertiginous fairways that demand real consideration of where you're aiming IRL. It's absurd to have a straight shot needing no adjustment when practically hanging on to the side of a hill there.

  If you want realism, why not accept something that's a far sight closer to real than what we have currently with Artificial Lies in the main gameplay?

  So, Tiffer, I think it's more realistic, and more difficult... and both are great for the game!

   

• MBaggese 15,368 Posts

  Wed, Dec 26 2012 6:01 PM

  CerinoDevoti:

  I know a Sicilian proverb I'd like to write but you probably know it as well. ;-)

   

  LMBO!