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NEW DRIVER BETWEEN LEVEL 88-94

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 5:14 PM

  alanti:

  Out of the 7 running 5 of the leaders use the R11S

  Very interesting!

  Take the rest of your point but obviously most like it! If a tour manufacturer had that stat it would be Good Night Vienna for the competition. No one ever suggested it will be all game changing though! IRL pros / ams use the best equipment all round which I think is the real point! Tour pros to get any edge in high level competition, and ams to be the best they can. I would not like to be some one saying to Rory McIlroy you can't have the best driver for a year, and it's all about putting anyway!

   

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 5:53 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  alanti:

  Out of the 7 running 5 of the leaders use the R11S

  Very interesting!

  Take the rest of your point but obviously most like it! If a tour manufacturer had that stat it would be Good Night Vienna for the competition. No one ever suggested it will be all game changing though! IRL pros / ams use the best equipment all round which I think is the real point! Tour pros to get any edge in high level competition, and ams to be the best they can. I would not like to be some one saying to Rory McIlroy you can't have the best driver for a year, and it's all about putting anyway!

  Jim, i understand your point totally. But this is not RL. The game is based on making the most money.

  The only thing that separates a good legend and a tour legend is the amount of ball cost it takes to complete 500 rounds. Which is a hefty amount, i can assure you, lol. $5.50 plus a sleeve, 500 rounds,,hmmmmm, lol.

  I used the regular R11 for most all of my legend days. And now i have the R11s model, it is more forgiving no doubt about it. But i can't see it improving my scores all that much.

  Having played against higher level players with the R1, i don't think i will be buying it. Not saying its not a good driver. I just don't see that much of a advantage.

  This game the way i see it, the player who can putt his or her ball has the advantage.

  I can't see WGT moving any high level equipment down any. Solely based on ball cost in leveling up. Money driven game.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 6:03 PM

  geraldlarousse:

  I can't see WGT moving any high level equipment down any. Solely based on ball cost in leveling up. Money driven game.

  I strongly take that point Gerald.  

  And if the bean counter's have that 100% it's a dead end accepted.  Point on putting being important is also never in dispute. All I would say, and for consideration, is that keeping people happy might sell more balls? And they would sell a few R11 drivers anyway, and then all the short term growth with new R11S sales! And just maybe after that people will talk highly of the game more and reduce some negative's which may (good will you pay for on a balance sheet) = $. 

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 7:01 PM

  alanti:

  the fact is every player who uses the R11S is now at least level 94

  Wrong, the R11s was available at L90 so the game is saturated w/ them and this is the major issue.

  alanti:

  DoctorEagle:

  With all the new equipment out there at other levels, the performance for drivers at or below Legend L94- don't compare with the performance of drivers at the other tiers/levels.

  Firstly, I have never said that drivers below the R11S are better

  So are you saying that when you become Legend, you deserve a driver that would comparative to the distance advantage you get as a TM? If so his would give you similar distance approach shots - isn't the point of increasing tiers to make the game incrementally harder?

  Yes and no...

  I think the point is to make it harder, but not necessarily harder do compete. It seems the idea behind increasing tiers is to sell more equipment, and as a sort of reward for reaching the levels you unlock equipment that allows you to compete on the tougher conditions. Kind of whacked but understandable.

  Keep in mind the quote of mine that you were commenting on implied taking distance from the tee box into consideration as mentioned in the second part of the post.

  alanti:

  The question is can you be competitive using a driver less than the R11S from Legend tees? We can all draw our own conclusions but here is some interesting stats from the free weekly/monthly tournaments (excluding the par 3 and Open)

  Out of the 7 running 5 of the leaders use the R11S, one the R11 and one uses the G20. So does this back up your theory?

  You'll get a better sampling by looking at the Virtual U.S. Open where the best of the best compete. Not one in the top 12 appeared to use a driver lower than the R11s. At a glance, I'd bet the % of Legend+ qualifiers that use anything but the R11s or R1 would be pretty low.
  

   

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 7:45 PM

  DoctorEagle:

  alanti:

  the fact is every player who uses the R11S is now at least level 94

  Wrong, the R11s was available at L90 so the game is saturated w/ them and this is the major issue.

  Yes it was available at level 90, and being a better driver players would have probably bought it then (and I was 2-3 weeks away grrr) but if they could not improve by playing at least another 4 levels (a hell of a lot of XP and balls) then they would never compete anyway - the driver effect is negligible. Again I will use the supermarket analogy and WGT corrected it (I was waiting for the R11S and still used the G20, a good solid driver, but when it was moved I purchased the R11, KA CHING go the cash registers).

  Therefore I cannot dispute your reasoning behind the "level" criteria - it was introduced as it does increase sales (and this is why WGT moved away from Tiered equipment.

  By sampling the Virtual Open leader board is going to be somewhat skewed IMO as these really are the top players of WGT (TL or the very best legends), none whom I could compete with if they used starters clubs lol. They are the elite of WGT.  I used the weekly and monthly as many of these players tend to be your standard players who cannot compete at the highest level, regardless of equipment. So take me, an average player without the top drivers, but can I compete, yes (on a good day, on a bad day a hack would be better than me)

  Having said that I have been honoured to play with a few of the very good players of WGT, ok they drive the ball a little further (R11S), but the real difference is their approach shots are usually consistently good, but most importantly, their putting is deadly. The old adage, drive for show, putt for dough.

  EDIT - Well I sampled the top 50 of the Virtual Open. 47 TL's and 3 Legends. The breakdown of driver for the Legends - 2 use the R11, and one the G20 (they were levels 90, 93 and 94).

  Only 10 players were level 94 and under - the driver breakdown.

  R11 x 4.    R11S x 4       G20 x 1   R9 x 1

  My conclusion - its the player and experience, NOT the driver. Certainly a better driver is a help but this proves that you can compete regardless of driver. provided you are good enough.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 9:23 PM

  I was leaving this one but a couple of points I feel are worth while:

  alanti:

  The old adage, drive for show, putt for dough.

  Never brought in or disputed!

  alanti:

  Certainly a better driver is a help but this proves that you can compete regardless of driver

  Never disputed or suggested otherwise. The degree to which you get some slight edge, all else equal, over a season is the only moot point.  Surely that's why most have the R11S given the choice, and nothing more was ever suggested that I can see!

  alanti:

  but if they could not improve by playing at least another 4 levels (a hell of a lot of XP and balls)

  Again never suggested. 

  Accepted you probably introduced those point's because you felt they were relevant, but here we just have to beg to differ. Away from that some seem to think it should be available (to certain tier's) sooner for several reason's all discussed, and some not in that camp.  Guess that's it!

   

   

   

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 9:52 PM

  It can't be good for sales WGT. I'd happily buy a new club but it's about 5,000,000 xp before I reach the next one that will be any use to me.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 10:10 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  alanti:

  The old adage, drive for show, putt for dough.

  Never brought in or disputed!

  I agree, it was never disputed nor mentioned, I just used this to to prove a point.

  Jimbog1964:

  alanti:

  Certainly a better driver is a help but this proves that you can compete regardless of driver

  Never disputed or suggested otherwise. The degree to which you get some slight edge, all else equal, over a season is the only moot point.

  Not by you Jim, but was by DoctorEagle - he was saying to compete you need this the R11S so thats why I have been like a dog with a bone on this point. And I agree no-one has been disputed experience counts, but like the dog with a bone, I wanted reiterate my point about "competing".

  Jimbog1964:

  Away from that some seem to think it should be available sooner for several reason's all discussed, and some not in that camp.  Guess that's it!

  I haven't seen or heard anyone not wanting a better driver sooner rather than later, as I have said previously, level 92 would have been preferable, but the bean counters at WGT decided level 94 would reap the largest reward (had it been level 92 I probably would have kept using the G20) - so they perhaps got this right from a financial perspective.

  courteneyfish:

  It can't be good for sales WGT. I'd happily buy a new club but it's about 5,000,000 xp before I reach the next one that will be any use to me.

  LOL Courteney, as would many, but how many balls will you buy getting those 5.000.000 xp points - thats where the real money is.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 10:40 PM

  I can put some arguments to rest...or maybe just mere misunderstandings.

   

  Former R11 (not S) user...who played mostly 50/100 RG's and the occasional 200 cr RG...been kept in balls for a year...which also includes numerous CC tourneys, AS games and gifting balls along the way.

   

  I've just been using the R1 for about 3-4 weeks (thanks again ya EastCoast lover) and am still running about the same in RG's...only difference for me this month is playing 200 CR RG's (like SA 18) daily..so payoff is a bit higher with a good score.

   

  Now...why do I say this?..well, I'm not near the Elite here, nor the top draw players...but if I can cover my game costs with the R11...again...NOT R11S...the rest of you can.

   

  I think all the great clubs offered over the past few years as well as balls, to lower level players, that were not available a few years back, has spoiled you all on "instant gratification" mode...feeling you need the best stuff to compete.

   

  Bottom line it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

   

   

   

   

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, May 27 2013 11:57 PM

  Away from the topic as exhausted in book LOL.......Out of purely inane interest is the R11S 3 wood any better or even worse than the R11 3 wood??