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Our Plans for New Tiers and Levels

• eternalspirit 255 Posts

  Thu, Aug 12 2010 6:05 AM

  superb idea! well thought of Thunderbird

• TDHarvey 433 Posts

  Thu, Aug 12 2010 6:46 AM

  zagraniczniak:

  TDHarvey:

  Wow i cant believe everyone is missing the reason behind this implementation.....MONEY. This opens up a big cash stream for WGT. They will be selling better, more expensive equipment to everyone.....not just the master tier players. Hacks on down the line could buy better equipment....

   

  If anything it could be the other way around. The current business model encourages players to buy a set of clubs specific to their level (Amateur, Pro...) and then buy a new set again when they reach the next level. WGT would seem to lose money if low-ranked players could immediately shell out for the Master clubs, once and for all.

  Could be but i was thinking that wgt would use the opportunity to entice players into buying the most expensive equipment early and then if the dont end up sticking around and being a long term member they have squeezed every dime possible out of them. As it is now hack, amatuer, and some pro tier players using lesser clubs tend to drift away from the game. However like I said and Lee commented on I have no problem with wgt making $$ and improving the game.

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Thu, Aug 12 2010 8:51 AM

  I'm a Master, 64 avg, not a Legend and probably end up as still a Master or possibly a Tour Master. In the new scheme I would be affected by a Pro playing with master clubs from Pro tees.

  Affected only in mult-player games with Pros.  That's a very small percentage of my games played.  Not a big deal to me.  It would be a big problem for a master playing lots of games against Pros, in MP challenges. (my state doesn't allow it)

  I have an R9 driver and set of G10s I just can't hit, there will be Pros who can't hit 'em either, advantage Masters.

  For those Pros who can hit them well. Advantage to the Pros.  Pros who hit Master clubs well will shoot low scores and advance to Master tees quickly.  I think there's a small window of time where you run into a Pro in MPC who hits master clubs well.

  Unless of course he is a sandbagger.  But that's a small percentage of the  Pros too.

  Seems like sandbaggers get unmasked too.  You check your opponents profile before agreeing to a MPC, and don't play them.

  WGT's proposal allows many thousands of players access to better equipment and opens up a new, big, revenue opportunity.  This is good.

  I really don't see the need to complicate club performance by downgrading power and accuracy for Pros.

  Solutions to sandbagging, multiple accounts, and cheaters are what's really needed

   

   

• Tresclub 934 Posts

  Thu, Aug 12 2010 10:55 PM

  thunderbird:

  May I suggest something that could help encourage people to get better or move up in tier levels.  As in real life as you get better so does your accuracy, distances, feel.  I would suggest that if there is going to be a different set of tee boxes why don't we add distance, accuracy and feel to a player based on his ranking.  If you achieve the highest ranking you will get 1 more attribute of distance, 1 more attribute of feel, etc.  This would not only provide a realistic since of improvement but also improve the overall gameplay in my opinion. 

  Outstanding idea TBIRD!!!

• ThreeSpot 476 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 12:10 AM

  I'm all in favor of adding Tiers, but I am concerned about the addition of Levels, specifically the notion of gaining levels by "interacting with other players" which was mentioned, and that levels could also be gained by "credits wagered" which was not mentioned but I assume is a possibility. I am not eligible to wager credits. I also play alone, exclusively. I'd like not to be penalized or limited by my inability to wager credits or my preference to play alone. Thank you for your consideration.

• BOFFMEN 337 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 6:00 AM

  Keep it Simple.

  1. Max Score System on all Tiers (except Tournaments,Rg,MPC etc. of course).
  2. Weight finishing a Ranked Multi-Player round the most regarding Experience Level Achievement.

  How many members could complain about those 2 ideas.  (guess I'll find out ...lol)

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:05 AM

  Hey Boffman,

  From what I've read in your prior post the Max Score System is similar to the Equitable Stroke Control System used by the USGA to compute handicaps.  The main difference being the ESC bases the individuals max score/hole on how good a golfer they are.  Scratch/near-scratch golfers are allowed a max of double bogey.  High handicappers get to record a 10 as their max/hole. 

  Something similar could be used by WGT to compute averages.

  For example, it might possibly look something like this for the new tiers:

  Legend Master max/hole = bogey

  Tour Master max/hole = bogey

  Master max/hole =double bogey

  Tour Pro max/hole=double bogey

  Pro max/hole=triple bogey

  Am max/hole=quaduple bogey

  Hack max/hole=quintuple bogey

  using the same max/hole for all tiers would if set too low make it easy for a Tour Pro to slip into Master.  If set too high, make it easy for masters/pros to stay put rather than advance.

  Granted, neither method works for the guys shooting 90 on 9 holes.  Nothing is perfect. LOL

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 9:46 AM

  Don't remember what thread it was, or where it was stated, but I believe that WGT made it very clear that they are not going to implement any type of handicapping into the average equations.

  If that is the case, I am all for the suggestions that have been stated by a couple of other members to separate the averages, showing one average for any matches that involve any sort of payout or credit transfer, and a second average for all other ranked/scored rounds. Display BOTH of these averages next to a players info during the game setup options, so an informed decision can be made at time of game setup without having to navigate away from the setup window to see someones stats or bio.

  I'm OK with the tier changes and stuff, but don't think this is the answer to sandbagging, and WGT has also stated that this is not the intended purpose of these changes. Why they are not focusing more on the sandbagging and cheating issues are beyond me, but I think we are all making a mistake, myself included, by judging these new tiers based on their potential to stop sandbagging; it just isn't what they are designed to do.

  When they implement these new tiers, I hope they keep in mind what they are intended to do, and not incorporate this at all into the players ranking (if, God forbid, the senseless reputation feature is still being considered). Let the tiers keep the game more interesting, but please please please don't incorporate tier progression, player interaction, or any other useless stat into the average calculations, or a players reputation.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 11:55 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  Why they are not focusing more on the sandbagging and cheating issues are beyond me, but I think we are all making a mistake, myself included, by judging these new tiers based on their potential to stop sandbagging; it just isn't what they are designed to do.

  That may be dealt with to some extent by the experience levels. Consider first:

  1) Single accounts. If someone uses a single account but runs up high scores on some rounds to try to balance low rounds (using nice equipment) against gullible opponents, an algorithm should catch that out pretty easily. A handicap (or average of best scores, discarding anomalies - whatever you want to call it an average score or a handicap, the idea is the same) is aimed at capturing the best someone is capable of, so it should focus on the best rounds. We all know in WGT as in RL, there is no way someone who seems to post 90s or whatever can "accidentally" shoot a "lucky" 65 or 60 or whatever. No way. They could get lucky on a couple of holes, but across a whole round, it just doesn't happen. If those folks shoot a score like that once, we know they're capable of it and out they go. Bye! It doesn't have to be ranked rounds. The sheer number of birdies/pars in match play would suffice.

  Now, what I was leading up to with the experience levels:

  2) Multiple accounts. Based on the experience level concept, if someone opened a second (third, etc.) account, against the rules, to trap gullible opponents, they would have to use starter clubs and could not take advantage of other players (or not very much). In order to qualify to play with better equipment (and more effectively fleece the gullible), they would have "interact" etc., meaning play real rounds and so on, SHOW GAME IMPROVEMENT, etc. Then even without the finest algorithm they would be caught out long before they would be able to do much damage.

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Fri, Aug 13 2010 12:00 PM

  Most probably been said by many others before but the whole concept of averages in this game is flawed. How on earth any weight can be given to a players average when there is no penalty for withdrawals during a ranked round is beyond me.

  An NR is an NR in real golf and as such a players handicap goes up as a result.

  When averages are going to be linked even more closely to clubs and hole distance, sandbagging will become commonplace.

  Sorry but this one gets the thumbs down from me.