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cheat5.6

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 2:25 PM

  VanHalenLover:

  The damage that this technique exposes the host site to, far outweigh any temporary benefits. IP addresses are constantly changing.

  I never saw any damage, only the benefits.  And my IP has not changed in more than 5 years.  Don't exaggerate for effect please.

  VanHalenLover:

  Let me ask you this. If you blocked someones IP as you previously stated, what measures did you have in place to ensure that a change of IP wasn't being used that allowed them to re-register? How were you able to track how successful you were by using IP blocking?It's an easy claim to make, but if you had no identity check in place that would catch someone registering with a new IP address, you would have no idea how successful you were.

  I knew how successful it was because the personal attacks and flames stopped.  I knew when the same issues and flaming of the same individual began, the person had re-registered under a new IP.  This is not rocket science and you don't need to be a forensic linguistics expert to recognize an individual from their posts.

  Sorry if you disagree, nitpick all you want, but I've been there, done that, and it works to a certain extent.

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 2:58 PM

  andyson,

  I don't disagree at all with the fact that it is a very low level initial preventative measure. I think we just have a different opinion of how practical of a measure it can be. I am probably looking at it from a much larger scale perspective than you are, no harm there. For smaller mom and pop threads it can be a good tier 1 tool, beyond that, I don't think so. Certainly not here in a Global setting. That was the original question that you posed, why I didn't think IP mapping was a consideration for WGT to use, remember? They are a global company when it comes to IP mapping, no questions about it.

  I'm not exaggerating anything for effect. IP leases are a common thing, as well as IP pools that ISP utilize. Anyone with a dynamic IP changes IP address every time they shut down and restart a modem. Many do this daily without ever knowing they have changed IP addresses. Automatic IP configuration settings are default on any windows machine, and it takes a bit of knowledge to assign a static IP even locally, much less externally. Throw in routers, hubs, switches, and wireless modems that all have unique IP addresses (that can be easily changed!) and the capability is multiplied endlessly. No exaggerations needed to make this point.

  I will however take issue with your data collection methods. You are using this example as being efficient in blocking multi account sign-ups, yet use no other means (or at least have stated no other means) of verification, other than a comparison of a users linguistics? Not a good way to moderate a forum, and certainly no way to support an argument, no matter how small the community you used the techniques within. If you think users that are willing to manipulate rules in order to re-register are not going to adapt a posting style to aid in their discreetness, you are sadly mistaken. There are many fool proof ways to verify identity, depending in the application or venue, it's all a matter of how successful you want to be, and at what cost.

  Are you at least able to see the difference between a small forum and a global forum as far as the potential damages that IP blocking can create?

• cozmozogg 167 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 3:11 PM

  i think andyson, VH, and snaike all have some very good points on this issue. again, i wonder what WGT thinks and moreover, the steps they are taking to keep the cheaters out. i would love to sit in on the developer's meetings on that topic... i guess the question is - how effective would the anti-cheat measures be and how much would they cost to implement/police, or to fix when there's a mistake?

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 3:31 PM

  VanHalenLover:

  Are you at least able to see the difference between a small forum and a global forum as far as the potential damages that IP blocking can create?

  There is no difference in potential risk when blocking a single IP, whether local or global.

  If you're going to block the quadrant after the last dot (123.123.123.*) you better know you could block as many  as 256 users, you check your IP logs and look for collisions between users.  Whether local or global, that doesn't matter here either.

  That would be the biggest IP block I would attempt, say to get rid of a user from AOL who were (maybe still are) using dynamic IP allocation.

   

  VanHalenLover:

  I will however take issue with your data collection methods.You are using this example as being efficient in blocking multi account sign-ups, yet use no other means (or at least have stated no other means) of verification, other than a comparison of a users linguistics? Not a good way to moderate a forum, and certainly no way to support an argument, no matter how small the community you used the techniques within. If you think users that are willing to manipulate rules in order to re-register are not going to adapt a posting style to aid in their discreetness, you are sadly mistaken.

  I did state other means, they eventually went after, attacked, the same person they attacked/flamed as before. They just can't resist.   The posting style is a clue.  Criticize it all you want, but know this, it worked.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 4:17 PM

  VanHalenLover:

  re: name calling - I was saying, in another thread, that a certain user resorts to name calling all too often. He also goes unpunished all too often. Why do you bring it up here? It's off topic here,

  Because you were just guilty of this yourself!!!! Let me refresh your memory that obviously and conveniently doesn't stick around too long........

  "Do you have anything specific, or would you rather prefer to continue acting like a child?"

  Page 13 if you want to see for yourself, vgolfmaster.

  Incidentally, my IP address is the same as it was when you were moderating that other forum that Turner set up.

• barbary 131 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 5:00 PM

  just played a cheat in dcchallenger...very obvious that it was using software throughout a dollar challenge...it goes on all the time and there aint nothing we can do about it lol

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 7:18 PM

  andyson:

  There is no difference in potential risk when blocking a single IP, whether local or global.

  Agreed. The point I was trying to make is that a single IP is not the issue that WGT would have to deal with DUE to the fact that they are global and have countless more users. More users = more abuse which means many times more IP's to block, making the risk exponentially larger.

  andyson:

  you check your IP logs and look for collisions between users

  that would check for current conflicts, but not prevent future ones that might develop once those IP addresses are assigned to others; who may (or may not be) existing users.

  andyson:

  That would be the biggest IP block I would attempt, say to get rid of a user from AOL who were (maybe still are) using dynamic IP allocation.

  I can see that, but I personally wouldn't risk potential conflicts of well over 200 other users to try to stop 1, when there are much more efficient methods that require no potential losses from other users.

   

   

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 8:34 PM

  YJ,

  YankeeJim:

  Because you were just guilty of this yourself!!!! Let me refresh your memory that obviously and conveniently doesn't stick around too long........

  You obviously need a refresher on the difference between derogatory name calling, and describing ones actions. I didn't call you a child, I said you were acting like a child. In fact, you still are.

  YankeeJim:

  Incidentally, my IP address is the same as it was when you were moderating that other forum that Turner set up.

  I never had your IP address Jim, and have no interest in it. And might you be able to give a little more detail about my moderating job that I wasn't aware of, I'd sure like to know what I am getting paid ?!

   

   

• cozmozogg 167 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 8:50 PM

  perhaps it's because i just saw the movie "felon", via netflix [which i became a member through via WGT, and purchased my V2 pro set as a result of], or maybe it's my love of sports [which i had hoped would be untainted since i was a kid], or maybe because i love this game at WGT... but i will offer this: "All progress is precarious, and the solution of one problem brings us face to face with another problem." - a great quote from someone who offered peace, love, and happiness - only to be shot dead. don't let the game die WGT - i know u can't please all of the people all of the time, but perhaps u can appease the masses? [yes, i'm drinkin again]

• haji97071 192 Posts

  Tue, Aug 31 2010 9:28 PM

  just to fan the flames a little, no names but here is what i e-mailed WGT today:

  player(no names)    days a member               score shot                     course

  #1                                            2                                    64                              kiawah

  #2                                            1                                     68                             kiawah

  same player                           1                                    68                             bethpage

  #3                                             3                                     68                            kiawah

  #4                                             4                                    69                             kiawah

  #5                                              5                                    32                            bethpage

  #6                                              4                                     34                           bethpage

  #7                                              7                                    31                             st. andrews

  #8                                              2                                    33                             st. andrews

  #9                                              5                                     65                            bethpage

  c'mon guys, even a lowly customer of this site can find these people who are shooting these kind of scores on their first few days.  it's cheating and does not seem to be anything we can do.  Again no response to 14 pages on this subject, however, if i had named a name or two, WGT would have been all over my case in a minute (so they are obviously observing what we say).