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L97 Nike VR Mid Iron Shot Walkabout?

Thu, May 29 2014 7:17 AM (100 replies)
  • skccvb
    799 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 7:04 AM

    Jimbo's vent/rant aside- are we forgetting that we have all had days when we could not tame the R11's - they too have been known to have a mind of their own. Some days the game is easy- some days its a ballbusta.

    Not gonna touch the left handed insult JB- there may be a few truly elite players out there- and none of us in this particular thread qualify. That said- everyone in this discussion can flat play. 

    I am simply at a loss to understand why some find the 97 Nikes 'off' in a way that isn't VEM related. To me- they are the best irons you can buy- so we do - we learn their quirks and we live with the inherent ups and downs of this game.

    As to ball choice- whatever floats your boat, right? I do still believe that combining 4.5 dots club spin with 4 or 5 dots ball spin means you must be dialed in to see the benefits of throwing darts at will. 

  • slillico
    393 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 9:34 AM

    skccvb:

    Jimbo's vent/rant aside..............

    Ok, just so we can agree on something.

    I'm fairly certain if all the WGT golf Jim played here was a CC or a monthly over and over and over again, he nor anyone else here would give a rats patootie if the clubs had a 30 40 or 50 foot circle of precision.

    You have absolutely no idea what he is talking about, I doubt very much with the play you stick to, that you have ever even had a shot veer off course more than a yard.

    Most of us could play the courses and conditions you play clicking the mouse with our feet.

    Maybe leave the conversation alone for a while and let a discussion continue about what's working and what is not working, on truly difficult conditions, in high level play. I for 1 am very interested in this thread and would like to keep it on track, perhaps trying to save some time by pooling some of our collective resources.

    There is no need for the cheer leading squad here, no one is insulting anything, just trying to figure some stuff out.

    Carry on Jim, Please!

  • skccvb
    799 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 9:46 AM

    I play all the courses - and a lot of AS (guilds mostly- best players)- been playing same tourney on steroids to get my rounds in for TL- so not sure what the whole judgmental attitude is about. Frankly you are being offensive without adding anything useful yourself. 

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 1:06 PM

    SK - Nothing left handed about any of it that I saw.  Pretty direct IMO.  You wana take it as an insult that's fine edit; your decision but needed explaining and I just tried doing it direct. I will say that you have missed the point a few times now IMO. If they are working for you great but using your top violin player analogy was either, "left handed" or misguided.  Several know when they hit a good shot, and people have here been falling at least in to that category for some time.  They are, unless they have stated otherwise,been commenting on good shots that they do not understand going way off - they know what they are talking about.

    That's not taking anything away from very elite players at all, and hats off to them.  Some here are basically that or near anyway IMO, but they would not say it.  I for one value their constructive in put. We all have off days, R11s or otherwise, and that is taken as read, no one is forgetting that - again just off the point. That's not being left handed.............enough

    Back on track

    Point is I do not believe these irons are only aimed at some v elite band of players, and the rest need not bother except a few who concede they "drop down" to the L33 (way less expensive) type ball, and accept it's lesser scoring potential. Not being disrespectful to L33 users, but many feel it's attributes do not always allow the same chance for scoring as a higher level ball - all else equal.  In a game of fractions I would be backing myself more with the R11s and L81 ball, than the L33 Cally and Nike VRs.  Yes you might ding a L33 Cally a bit more with a slower meter iron, but that's separate IMO / each to own anyway.  

    For me the point, and only point, now is that plenty of people of a good enough standard to know are seeing good shots (heck just the dings if want real real any one would know basics), just concern ourselves with that please, simply not work as they should.  The L81 spin thing, having been rightly discussed at length,now looks a red herring for most of these ongoing purposes as it's other balls to, and we all recognise a good shot or a bad one.  

    Going through the thread trying to stay objective, and also keeping things brief for focus I offer a summation for what happens with good shots as follows:

    WGT G13 D & S

    SL noted hold the line well, but lack of other attributes mean they would not be chosen to compete with often;

    Nikes

    SL noted that distance is very consistent across the board. However, the line fades to too large a sideways oval the higher the level of ball;

    cbb noted that the L48 ball was the best performing Nike;

    fatdan noted that the L61 ball performs well overall - couple of issues on two clubs, but  I will leave that for this discussion (obv. please get back if I am missing a bigger pointit);

    CJohn reported 2-3M wanderings on dings and 5 on misses.  This was confirmed by MKG.  MKG was not overly worried by this;

    JB concurrs with SL on the too large an oval shaped deviation circle for the L81 Nikes.  JB also feels the Nike does not perform consistently enough, with distance on mid irons, per exact spin setting especially when any head wind is put in to the equation;

    Whands noted that the L81 ball will play fine one day and the next.  Please come back Woodenhands if you see merit, but for now I will leave that one as it was one RG round being compared to next days.

    SK noted these irons offer game changing attributes for for excellent players with the L81 ball.

    Nike ball conclusion.  The higher the level ball the less these irons are able to offer generally.  One exception to this is noted in the mid range, and one also in the high range.

    Max

    Slil noted that these hold the line;

    GRousse noted that the Max using even no spin saw this not the case at all for him, noting a way too often wayward shot.  He commented that he could only see his distance to the pin stat going south with these new irons. He also noted irons are v unforgiving on miss hits even taken the low spin option.

    Conclusion - go figure.

    Cally

    Cally L33

    Slil and YJ noted that this ball is the most consistent of all.  This has now been universally agreed with.  It has to be said that this ball lacks other higher level attributes though, and as such is almost invariably not a contender in high level competition.

    SM L34

    Sli noted good distance, but line fades. I should add this issue has also been a major concern of another very good player I know.

    Cally conclusion - signs of the higher the level the less is offered like the Nikes??

    Overall conclusion

    Of course the sample is tiny, and therefore could be dismissed as simply not holding water because of that. However, if this were RL the pro would be beside his / herself to get to the bottom of it.  If I were Mr. Nike I would be asking WGT to explain a few things, and produce some serious concrete evidence as to why these people are nuts. I would certainly be half interested enough to look at how many others are concerned, that a flagship Nike iron set can't be shown off by a top level Nike ball.

    Overall (and now just subjective):

    I confess to feeling a little jaded by WGT.  Simple stuff like money grabbing with the $5 virtual notebook with virtually glued together pages, still being flogged to unsuspecting customers is one thing in the virtual world but this quite another.  

    So far these Flagship irons have been way below my expectation's.  From what I have seen they are just not good enough to be capable of helping me progress to higher competition, or even allow me to do well in my current standard.

    WGT fundamentally still have a marvelous product, but lately my experience has lost some of the enthusiasm that was there.  I would like to see a response from WGT saying why they disagree, or if different, a time frame to get this mess sorted or money back for a duffer, and also credit for two wasted sleeves.  Realism tells me not to get too excited over any of that.

    Have to say any one that asks me about these irons I will simply refer to this thread. I hope these irons (risk sounding like Mr. Naivety) are fixed, and I can say different soon, but for now just feel daft for allowing myself to get ripped a new one so easy.

    My 2 cents 

    EDIT: For the sake of completeness meter issues were also were reported 3 times.

    EDIT 2: PW was nice to use, just a shame about the other 8 irons.

     

     

     

     

     

  • geraldlarousse
    1,986 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 1:07 PM

    Alright now.... how did we get to this position?

    Being one of the best players here has zero to do with hitting a ding shot. Zero!

    When you ding a shot and the ball veers way off line,,, being one of the best means what??..  lol  Yeah that's what i thought.

    Now.... For everyone's info... i have talked to a few of the very best of this game. These players don't come to the forum hardly ever..... i wonder why??  lol.

    Now... do you know what most of them said about these new irons? All but one of them said these irons are crap. All saying exact same thing i have been saying. Ding hits flying everywhere.

    When i rented these irons if they were more precise than R11s i would have bought them,, no doubt about it. But.... i didn't see that.

    I'm closer on approaches using R11s.  Maybe i just had a bad Vem streak when i had them......... but then again i'm hardly the only one that has seen these ding shots flying off line.

  • Mushy01
    2,567 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 1:34 PM

    My conclusion from all of this, agree almost 90% with what as been said here and thank god I kept my R11's ;-)

  • slillico
    393 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 2:11 PM

    Jimbog1964:
    and also credit for two wasted sleeves.

    Yes I would like credit for the following:

    2 sleeves of each Nike lvl 75, 85 Cally 45 Legend ball and TM Lethal, for whatever reason I bought 2 sleeves of each to test. :-( I had high hopes for the Legend Callaway seeing as it's a low spin ball but performance line wise was as poor as the 81 Nike, distance spikes as well.

    I'm still sticking with the Nikes, the r11's were completely broken for me, and I'm still closer to the hole then the prior month of the r11's, which is not saying much.

    What saddens me a little, I liked the slower meter 81, would rather not have to deal with the meter of the lvl 33, and I assume this thread will cause that ball (33) to go to the drawing board.

     

  • slillico
    393 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 3:22 PM

    skccvb:

    I play all the courses - and a lot of AS (guilds mostly- best players)- been playing same tourney on steroids to get my rounds in for TL- so not sure what the whole judgmental attitude is about. Frankly you are being offensive without adding anything useful yourself. 

    Sorry dude if you found it offensive, you stepped over a line there, and comprehension did not seem to be your strong suit although in hindsight it's more likely you just have not experienced what is being discussed and you assume everyone has similar experiences, whichever the case, I felt slam dunk clarity was required. Personally, I would rather not had to do that. Now we are back on point so we can chill now.

    As far as TL goes, whatever floats your boat, I would rather get to TL playing various courses and conditions and playing High Level High VEM tournaments like RG's where low scoring is vastly more difficult, but to each his own. That way, when I get there, other TL's or legends will not use me to mop the floor.

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 5:28 PM

    geraldlarousse:

    Now.... For everyone's info... i have talked to a few of the very best of this game. These players don't come to the forum hardly ever..... i wonder why??  lol.

    Now... do you know what most of them said about these new irons? All but one of them said these irons are crap. All saying exact same thing i have been saying. Ding hits flying everywhere.

    I did a quick sample of top players bags. The top 10 players on the earning leaders board, the TLs leading the AOL, the Nation Holiday, and the Koele CTTHs, plus a few top players like Fmags, Bollox and Priestess

    12 have Nike VF irons and use Nike L80 or higher balls

     1 has Nike VF irons and uses Nike L61 balls

     1 has Nike VF irons and uses Nike L48 balls

     1 has R11 irons and L80+ Nike balls

     1 has R11 irons and L71 Nike balls

    75% of these top players use the high level Nikes with their VF irons.  It depends who you talk to.

     

  • geraldlarousse
    1,986 Posts
    Sat, Jan 11 2014 5:37 PM

    andyson:

    geraldlarousse:

    Now.... For everyone's info... i have talked to a few of the very best of this game. These players don't come to the forum hardly ever..... i wonder why??  lol.

    Now... do you know what most of them said about these new irons? All but one of them said these irons are crap. All saying exact same thing i have been saying. Ding hits flying everywhere.

    I did a quick sample of top players bags. The top 10 players on the earning leaders board, the TLs leading the AOL, the Nation Holiday, and the Koele CTTHs, plus a few top players like Fmags, Bollox and Priestess

    12 have Nike VF irons and use Nike L80 or higher balls

     1 has Nike VF irons and uses Nike L61 balls

     1 has Nike VF irons and uses Nike L48 balls

     1 has R11 irons and L80+ Nike balls

     1 has R11 irons and L71 Nike balls

    75% of these top players use the high level Nikes with their VF irons.  It depends who you talk to.

     

    Yes for sure.. all depends on who you talk too. Just because you are a top earner doesn't always mean anything either.

    But.... then again.. would not make that big of deal anyway.

    Why??  Because they all can putt...lol. I shot same scores when using the Nike irons. Only thing i saw was putting from longer away. Still though.... same score.

    Overall my play with them.... distance to hole was greater than R11s. Not distance wise either. Just side to side.

    Edit: Also figure since i use the Max ball.... i got a lot of dingage going on here....lol. I know what up on the dingy thingy. Not to mention of all the players noted you still be hard pressed to find many with better then 10 feet approach distance. My distance to hole average. I control my distance without using much spin. But the side to side misses on ding hits is the issue here. Still though like i said on good hit...still going to make putt....lol.

    Nothing new to buy in pro shop forever for most of these players. They jumped as soon as these irons hit the shelf. For most averaging a little more to pin makes no big deal,, putter cleans that up no problem.

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