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DISCUSSION: Stats/Score/Ranking Re-set.

• Pappylon 7 Posts

  Sun, May 31 2009 5:01 PM

  A reset is definately needed.Most of us poor players got promoted up because we scored well on the hack tees.Everyone can manipulate their average up and down.The tiers need to be earned by playing on that particular tiers own tees.Have a one try -  qualifying round once a week if you want to move up a tier.Every 6 months you must requalify to adjust for inactivity.Lowest tiers should only have minimal prizes to encourage players to move up.The highest tiers should have the best prizes.

  Players should be ranked according to their average finish in tournaments - averages are too easily manipulated. The #1 golfer in the world doesn't have the lowest stroke average...so whats the point.

  My suggestion:

  Hack -

  Amateur - must score under 80

  Pro - under 72

  Master - under 66

   

   

   

   

• Lysti 323 Posts

  Sun, May 31 2009 5:05 PM

  I'm seeing Caven's point in the poll. And i'm not working to keep my score down, I'm only working on BP. I would like the tiers adjusted  better & a reset.

• SteveOhh 33 Posts

  Sun, May 31 2009 6:13 PM

  I am not sure if this was brought up but if you are going to reset the stats put a slope rating or something on the courses.  No way a 70 on Kiawah should be equivalent to a 70 on Bethpage Black.

• monkeyass 31 Posts

  Sun, May 31 2009 6:42 PM

  Maybe if you've been inactive for 2 months, you loose your rankings/stats etc... 

• Caven 63 Posts

  Mon, Jun 1 2009 7:13 AM

  Let's reiterate.

  What is needed is a "World Rank" system by tier to give a truer comparison of player's abilities versus the courses.

  For example, your rank would be weighted from your position from ranked rounds average (ranked play and unlimited tournaments) and where you finished in free single play tournaments..

  Penalties would be put on for not finishing a single play tournament or not playing a tournament,

  Your single best round on each available WGT play option would be used for your ranked average, thus your position in the average ranking..

  Multi-player games would not be a part of any average or ranking.  MP is a community fun round, and should mean nothing in the ranking.

  When AvatarLee plays Parker this fall will Parker's score be part of his tour average?  So let's leave MP out of any equation.  This would also reduce bail outs greatly.

  There would have to be a suitable time limit on play to earn a rank.  For example, rankings would be tabulated once a week, and a final ranking at the end of the month when everything is in, where as listings could be posted as they are now, immediately, for each of the criteria, ranked average and tournaments standing.

  As far as stats, I didn't even know all those stats were there until a week ago.  But once a ranking system is in place it would be wise to reset them.

  Awards, I suggest to leave alone until this site is out of beta.  These are more for the individual than the community.

  If a truer comparison system of player vs. all of WGT's options is not employed, then as I stated earlier resetting would really mean nothing.

  All of you, I'm sure, can add to this with your young creative minds, let's see if we can help WGT along and give them solid suggestions on how to actually develop a "World Ranking".

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Mon, Jun 1 2009 1:47 PM

  /bump me too

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2009 2:15 PM

  /bump one last time.  Maybe

  The people have spoken... 97% say yes.  (I think it could be 100% but I'm still waiting for word from the lone 'no'.

  Cheers

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2009 2:39 PM

  I'm pretty much on board with Caven here, especially the point about unranked multi-play.

  I think the easiest and most effective way to do the rankings is simply to rank all players separately in all major statistical categories.

  Those categories include:

  • Driving Accuracy %
  • Driving Distance Average
  • Green in Regulation %
  • Average Distance to the Pin
  • Sand Save %
  • Scrambling %
  • Par 3 Average
  • Par 4 Average
  • Par 5 Average
  • Putts per Round

  You'll note that I've left off scoring average and career earnings.  Why?  Because all of these stats combined are what creates your scoring average in the first place, so there's no need to take it into account again.  I didn't use career earnings because that's generally only a reflection of time you've been here and not so much an accurate ranking.  You could probably add a stat field for Tournament Scoring Average, but the unlimited tournament setup would skew that ranking a little, so I've also left it off.  Perhaps you could use average tournament finish instead with penalties for DNF'ing, such as automatic last place.

  I don't see how you can lose with this system any more than the system we have now.  Update stats every 12 hours (instead of instantly) so people can't see the real time effect their play is having.  It would be much harder to manipulate that many variables at one time and as a result you'd see much more legitimacy on all of the Top 10's.

  I can show my work if you'd like. :)

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2009 3:17 PM

  I've already posted ad nauseum about this topic for many months now.  All these points I've already covered ages ago.   The mutliplayer system should never have been ranked, like I said many months ago, but whatever.   There has been no explanation for why the stats haven't been reset.  It's a beta game, and they won't reset statistics after major changes.  Ludicrous.

  It took 8 months to get an adjustable putter distance option.  Error reports continue to be ignored.  They assured us that they were reading our comments about the tiers, assured us that they would make the Master tier difficult to get in, and then set up the worst tier system that I could possibly imagine ( I mean really, a Hack tier that you can get out of in 2 rounds?  Who the hell comes up with this stuff??) and with the Master tier NOT being hard to get into at all. ( If you'd actually played the game frequently, you'd understand just how easy it is to qualify for the Master tier, especially with unlimited play tournaments preceding the tier determination).  Add to that the fact that the ratings are still being determined on a 9-hole times 2 basis (when we have 18 holes on 2 courses to play...realistic golf rankings are based on 18 holes, WGT), and what you come up with is a bunch of frantic head scratching and bewilderment.

  Face it folks, WGT does not listen to us.  Too many great ideas have already fallen by the wayside.  We are asked for our input, but it mostly goes for naught.  It's clear they need some serious consultation from the best of us here, since it is evident that no one in the WGT staff is anywhere near competent enough at the game to really know how to set up a comprehensive ranking system that works.  Unfortunately, we are not consulted in advance of any of these changes happening.  They just HAPPEN one day, and then the forums fill up with complaint after complaint.  There's never any advance discussion about how things will change, it's just thrust upon us.

  Let this be a lesson to you WGT.  Your best player, who has been with you through 2 Charity Challenges, a closed Beta, and this open Beta, has lost all faith in you.  I've given my input time and time again, helped out other players, reported cheaters, done everything you've asked of me privately and publically.   I've given you many, many chances to learn from your mistakes, and have defended you against people who were losing patience in the past.

  I can see now that my trust and faith in you has been misplaced.  Do what you will with the rankings, stats, and everything else.  I'll adapt to whatever cockeyed system you put in place just as I always have.  But do not expect much respect from this golfer when you give none yourself.

  /rant.

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Wed, Jun 3 2009 3:25 PM

  Here's a spreadsheet I did comparing 8 well known players.  I'll let you draw your own conclusions towards the success of using a non-scoring average based ranking system like this.  Driving distance and Avg Pin need decimal places, but it otherwise works out ok.

  http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rmZUpcD5AQRK54gz4PrkdqQ

  Is there anyone that would argue towards the illegitimacy of this ranking?

  I did this in less than an hour pulling stats manually.  So I'm confused as to why something like this would be so hard to do.

  *edit*  Wow what a rant, but I gotta agree with tibbets unfortunately. :-/  You guys need to bring on a few of us players as advisors/consultants.  There are too many things that we don't understand your logic for and don't get an explanation about.  I wish you'd be more open in sharing the reasons why you do certain things.  Help us to understand better and we probably won't get as frustrated.  Invite everyone to IRC and let's pow wow.