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WGT flag fail

• PaulTon 10,731 Posts

  Fri, Apr 18 2014 11:15 AM

  tigerfan1506:

  I had fully supported this before. But now the question to myself as an American is, who do i support? My friends that want their flags or my friends that support the Queen and The United Kingdom? It has gotten a little more complicated to me.

  No one is asking for any presently used flag to be taken away.

  This is not about geo-politics , we just want the game to reflect what we see in real life golf tournaments.WGT already have the flags being asked for in their database, so how about a reason for denying our request?

   

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Fri, Apr 18 2014 8:59 PM

  alosso:

  This wee but tireless group provides for a lot of repeating traffic here but that doesn't enlarge their number nor influence. And, on page 2 of this thread we read an official "No plans to change the current flags" as an answer. So, eventually they cared for this plea but declined. AFAIS, this case has been closed.

  Members can appeal and decisions can be overturned. Not everything is set in stone. I understand that some members think that everything said here and there falls on deaf ears, but I know that not to be the case.

  I know several issues brought up in the forums have been fixed by WGT and some ideas have been implemented. Of course there are lots of irrelevant threads and plenty of bad ideas and it's no revelation that WGT is using it's business ethics to determine whether they will pursue a course of action.

  There are also some changes WGT make simply to define the game and make it better but don't result in profit, take aesthetics for example.

  The simple fact that British members make up a smaller percentage of the customer base doesn't make our opinions any less relevant.

  The opinions expressed here in favour of the country flags express clear logic and sound rationale. If anything the counter-opinion is of those who are either indifferent or just playing devil's advocate.

  Is it worth bringing this up again? If enough British members think so. Why not change the current flag list from WGT's 'political list' to a 'professional sport list'. After all isn't politics supposed to be taken out of WGT?

  Having 4 countries represented on WGT that are currently missing. In case there's any confusion, that's all we're talking about! The solution is blindingly obvious and incredibly simple....give members their country flags.

  WGT could keep the UK flag but regardless the UK is NOT a country. WGT may yet get it sorted out, so we'll see. Who knows, we could just be an update away from finally getting it sorted out?

  If nothing changes there will continue to be many disgruntled and fed up members but if the changes are made, everyone is happy and the threads will cease.

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Fri, Apr 18 2014 9:36 PM

   

  tigerfan1506:

  A lot of people commenting in this thread surely must be friends with Icon. Has anyone asked directly just WHY they are refusing to do this? There must be a reason besides "we don't wanna".

  Yes I am and I've mentioned it to him. He's brought it up and that's as much as I can tell you. As far as any action we'll have to wait and see? WGT will have to decide whether to take any action and then prioritize when to change it (if they will do anything at all). Why have they not changed this? There is no reason why. They just haven't got around to it

  That's why this thread helps not just to read opinions but to help WGT to see that this needs to change. In the end they will decide how important it is to them.

  tigerfan1506:

  I know to some this goes much deeper than just a flag on WGT. We brought this issue up in our CC and it started getting very political. Some members expressing that they hope WGT never got rid of the Union Flag, as they fully support the Queen and the United Kingdom.

  One thing this discussion has done, is made me read and learn a lot more than i remember from school on the history of how and why The United Kingdom was formed. 

  I had fully supported this before. But now the question to myself as an American is, who do i support? My friends that want their flags or my friends that support the Queen and The United Kingdom? It has gotten a little more complicated to me.

  Maybe i am making too much of it. I just hope there can be a solution that makes everyone happy.

  Actually the Union Jack is the 'political flag' from their 'political' UN list (as I understand this is what they are using) and WGT should not be the place for politics.

  They don't want politics discussed in the forums yet they use the political flag representing a nation instead of the four countries as it should be. It's a unique problem that they've created but have not got around to fixing...yet.

  Nobody is even asking for the Union Jack to be removed but simply to add the country flags to the list. The opinions in favour of change are from seeing a problem, having a solution that would make everyone happy, and asking for it to be fixed. That's all. It's based on principle not politics.

   

• alosso 21,070 Posts

  Fri, Apr 18 2014 11:20 PM

  PRStevenson:

  Actually the Union Jack is the 'political flag' from their 'political' UN list (as I understand this is what they are using)

  Which list do you have in mind? I've been searching to no avail.

  It is certainly not the UN members list. Antarctica, the Crown Dependencies like the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, Bermuda (UK), Puerto Rico (USA), Vatican (I?) and quite a few others don't fit into this roster. In total, there are 56 flags/countries in WGTland which are not (individual) members of the UN.

  PRStevenson:

  It's based on principal not politics.

  I'm curious: Which principal if not a political one?

  To my knowledge, the British countries (as well as those in Germany (cf. Bavaria) and other nations) have their origins in formerly independant political units, many of them kingdoms. Thus, those flags are inevitably political items IMHO. For me, the demand for the Saltire or St.George's cross can't be excluded from this view. You name it: Four countries - aren't they political units?

• WigerToods2010 8,447 Posts

  Sat, Apr 19 2014 3:01 AM

  alosso:

  This wee but tireless group provides for a lot of repeating traffic here but that doesn't enlarge their number nor influence. And, on page 2 of this thread we read an official "No plans to change the current flags" as an answer. So, eventually they cared for this plea but declined. AFAIS, this case has been closed.

  Go do your trolling elsewhere. 

  What's your ideal scenario, Alosso? Everyone flies under the same flag? ..... hasn't that been tried by a certain wee but tireless group already?

• alosso 21,070 Posts

  Sat, Apr 19 2014 3:30 AM

  No arguments, just insults from you? Good foundation for a troll!

  Your alibi "questions" appear to be straight from The Sun - empty-headed & outdated anti-German pribble-prabble.

  Have a nice day, out of sight!

• WigerToods2010 8,447 Posts

  Sat, Apr 19 2014 3:40 AM

  Good stuff - 'out of sight' - stay there. Best place for you. 

  

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Sun, Apr 20 2014 5:23 PM

  alosso:

  PRStevenson:

  It's based on principle not politics.

  I'm curious: Which principal if not a political one?

  To my knowledge, the British countries (as well as those in Germany (cf. Bavaria) and other nations) have their origins in formerly independant political units, many of them kingdoms. Thus, those flags are inevitably political items IMHO. For me, the demand for the Saltire or St.George's cross can't be excluded from this view. You name it: Four countries - aren't they political units?

   

  I don't think we need to muddy the waters for the sake of argument by delving into the political history of the flags. That argument is taking a non-political thread and making it political. It's quite simple. It's not about WGT having the UJ. It's about WGT having but not making available the flags of our countries. These are legitimate country flags and players feel they are not being justly represented. The principle is one of equality. If other countries can be represented with their country flags why can't the countries of England, N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales?

• biggtoad 1,360 Posts

  Sun, Apr 20 2014 5:49 PM

  Ok not to disturb the original post,  I see it is a very legitimate question, and not to rub salt into the ongoing debate, when I checked on my personnel status of my own country's flag I came up with this.

  Tribal sovereignty in the United States is the inherent authority of indigenous tribes to govern themselves within the borders of the United States of America. The federal government recognizes tribal nations as "domestic dependent nations" and has established a number of laws attempting to clarify the relationship between the federal, state, and tribal governments. The Constitution^[1] and later federal laws grant local sovereignty to tribal nations, but do not grant full sovereignty equivalent to that of foreign nations, hence the term "domestic dependent nations".

  I would like to fly a different flag but it looks like it is not an option for me.

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Sun, Apr 20 2014 6:58 PM

  Thanks for your reply biggtoad. It's not rubbing salt into the wound as there is a clear distinction in what you're proposing and what's being asked.

  You partly summed it up here...

  biggtoad:

  but do not grant full sovereignty equivalent to that of foreign nations, hence the term "domestic dependent nations".

  What you're talking about is US States...and what we're asking for the flags of our countries to be represented.

  The USA is a country. The UK is not a country.

  We also have the equivalent of US States in the UK called counties and each county has it's own flag.

  In fact every country in the world has these divisions whether they're called territories, provinces, counties or states etc. It would be ridiculous to expect WGT to represent these.

  What we're asking for is to make available the flags of 4 world countries that WGT have mapped into the system but haven't got around to making available. Those same country flags that you see in any professional golf tournament.

  Hope this makes it a bit more clear :)