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New Tier? Make some changes first....

• TheDuckinator 1,691 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 7:19 AM

   

  There has been a buzz going around that WGT is considering the idea of creating a new tier. For the sake of this post, I will refer to it as STL (Super Tour Legend). If you would have ask me how I feel about this a month or two ago, I would have said “bad idea”. Now, I'm not so sure. It kind of takes me back to when “Legend” was the highest tier on WGT. There was a time when being a “Legend” meant something on WGT. You had to work hard and actually “shoot the scores” to achieve Legend status. Then WGT decided to water down the Legend tier under the guise of stopping the “Sandbaggers". All you needed to do was find a Legend that would let you beat him in a few match games and “poof”, you were now a Legend. It did not matter what your true WGT average was. So that was the end of the Legend tier as we knew it. Being a Legend now is not what it used to be. It means nothing.

   

  Although not exactly the same way, WGT has now managed to do the same thing to the “Tour Legend” tier. The Tour Legend tier is now being flooded with what I call “Red Tee Tour Legends”. In their infinite wisdom, WGT decided to allow Country Clubs to set up club tournaments that can be played from any tee. Now you are seeing Legends that had a hard time breaking 30, shooting 27's and 28's on a regular basis. For the life of me, I could not understand why WGT would do something like that. Then it occurred to me. They cheapened the Legend tier shortly before they created the Tour Legend tier, and now they have managed to cheapen the Tour Legend tier. My guess is that you will see a new tier real soon. IE: STL's....

  When this happens, it will mean nothing if WGT does not change the “Red Tee” tournaments in CC's. I don't have a problem with allowing these tournaments. What I do have a problem with is allowing them to affect your average. I feel that anytime you play in a CC tournament that is played from a closer tee than your tier tee, it should not affect you average. Treat them the same way you do when playing the “Best of Par 5's” and the “Best of Par 3's”.

  I know I worked my butt off to make Legend. I did the same thing to make Tour Legend. There was a time when you were proud of what you accomplished. Sadly, that is no longer the case. Tiers and averages mean nothing now. And if WGT does not make any changes, the new STL tier will mean nothing as well.

  Please WGT: If you do implement a new tier, stop the shortcuts first! I think it's time to re-think the entire system. Lets get real with player averages. You say you have the most realistic golf game on the internet. How realistic is an average of 55? Come on... Stop the ridiculous way you compute averages. A simple way would be to base averages on your last 50 or 100 ranked rounds. Not based on your “Best” rounds. And stop the close tee tourneys..... I'm sure there other ways to achieve this, but it's time to change thing up before everyone on WGT is a Tour Legend.... Just my opinion...

   

  Duck

• spdemon 1,588 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 7:33 AM

  TheDuckinator:

   

  There has been a buzz going around that WGT is considering the idea of creating a new tier. For the sake of this post, I will refer to it as STL (Super Tour Legend). If you would have ask me how I feel about this a month or two ago, I would have said “bad idea”. Now, I'm not so sure. It kind of takes me back to when “Legend” was the highest tier on WGT. There was a time when being a “Legend” meant something on WGT. You had to work hard and actually “shoot the scores” to achieve Legend status. Then WGT decided to water down the Legend tier under the guise of stopping the “Sandbaggers". All you needed to do was find a Legend that would let you beat him in a few match games and “poof”, you were now a Legend. It did not matter what your true WGT average was. So that was the end of the Legend tier as we knew it. Being a Legend now is not what it used to be. It means nothing.

   

  Although not exactly the same way, WGT has now managed to do the same thing to the “Tour Legend” tier. The Tour Legend tier is now being flooded with what I call “Red Tee Tour Legends”. In their infinite wisdom, WGT decided to allow Country Clubs to set up club tournaments that can be played from any tee. Now you are seeing Legends that had a hard time breaking 30, shooting 27's and 28's on a regular basis. For the life of me, I could not understand why WGT would do something like that. Then it occurred to me. They cheapened the Legend tier shortly before they created the Tour Legend tier, and now they have managed to cheapen the Tour Legend tier. My guess is that you will see a new tier real soon. IE: STL's....

  When this happens, it will mean nothing if WGT does not change the “Red Tee” tournaments in CC's. I don't have a problem with allowing these tournaments. What I do have a problem with is allowing them to affect your average. I feel that anytime you play in a CC tournament that is played from a closer tee than your tier tee, it should not affect you average. Treat them the same way you do when playing the “Best of Par 5's” and the “Best of Par 3's”.

  I know I worked my butt off to make Legend. I did the same thing to make Tour Legend. There was a time when you were proud of what you accomplished. Sadly, that is no longer the case. Tiers and averages mean nothing now. And if WGT does not make any changes, the new STL tier will mean nothing as well.

  Please WGT: If you do implement a new tier, stop the shortcuts first! I think it's time to re-think the entire system. Lets get real with player averages. You say you have the most realistic golf game on the internet. How realistic is an average of 55? Come on... Stop the ridiculous way you compute averages. A simple way would be to base averages on your last 50 or 100 ranked rounds. Not based on your “Best” rounds. And stop the close tee tourneys..... I'm sure there other ways to achieve this, but it's time to change thing up before everyone on WGT is a Tour Legend.... Just my opinion...

   

  Duck

  This post is just another example of people worrying about what others do play your game and enjoy it let others do the same .

  FFS it's a video game who really cares anymore if you don't like the red tees don't play them most of those people you will not even see in a regular game anyway so whats the big deal 

  Makes no matter on on computing the avgs anyway cause there is always gonna be a forfeit button 

• TheDuckinator 1,691 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 7:49 AM

  spdemon:

  TheDuckinator:

   

  This post is just another example of people worrying about what others do play your game and enjoy it let others do the same .

  FFS it's a video game who really cares anymore if you don't like the red tees don't play them most of those people you will not even see in a regular game anyway so whats the big deal 

  Makes no matter on on computing the avgs anyway cause there is always gonna be a forfeit button 

  If this is the way you look at it, I have 1 question for you. Why have tiers or averages at all then? Under the current system, they mean nothing. All I am saying is WGT needs to make it a bit more realistic. I do agree with you about the forfeit button. That will always be a problem with true averages. However, tossing the "best" score formula would make it a bit more realistic.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:16 AM

  I get it, Duck, and it's hard to respond without sounding like an elitist or something but I agree with you. Not so much on the proliferation of TLs lately-generally they have decent games-but the Legend tier is beginning to resemble the Hack tier. I see it in AS play when you look at a player's score history and see nothing but "All Players"  tournaments on Kia and SA. LOL. Same as it was back when the Legend tier came out-the paper Legend was born. 

  You can't go back and change the way it is without major butt aches but if another tier does show up I'd really like to see it devoid of any average saturation nonsense. Have it be a true average that changes daily as your scores do. 

• TheDuckinator 1,691 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:34 AM

  YankeeJim:

  I get it, Duck, and it's hard to respond without sounding like an elitist or something but I agree with you. Not so much on the proliferation of TLs lately-generally they have decent games-but the Legend tier is beginning to resemble the Hack tier. I see it in AS play when you look at a player's score history and see nothing but "All Players"  tournaments on Kia and SA. LOL. Same as it was back when the Legend tier came out-the paper Legend was born. 

  You can't go back and change the way it is without major butt aches but if another tier does show up I'd really like to see it devoid of any average saturation nonsense. Have it be a true average that changes daily as your scores do. 

  I'm not trying to sound like an elitist either. All I am saying is that WGT needs to take a close look at the way they compute averages before they unleash a new tier or it will not mean much. And you are going to see more Red Tee TL's as time goes by.... It's inevitable....

• spdemon 1,588 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:49 AM

  TheDuckinator:

  f this is the way you look at it, I have 1 question for you. Why have tiers or averages at all then?

  Well it's suppose to be a skill separation between players but as good as all the "newbies " are why have them anyway if not for a goal to be set to reach.

  TheDuckinator:

  All I am saying is WGT needs to make it a bit more realistic.

  They could but would it make them any kind of revenue probably why it won't happen and as i said before the forfeit will keep avgs down if one wants to do so

  But how are the red tees any different than playing only one course ?  Hell i just play the ones that are easier to putt (for the most part ) and even some days that doesn't work right lol

  Some guys can shoot lights out all the time and on every course others can't but making the game easier  attracts more players and as good as the clubs and balls are people just get better everyday (with a lil more dollars spent )

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 8:49 AM

  TheDuckinator:

  Stop the ridiculous way you compute averages. A simple way would be to base averages on your last 50 or 100 ranked rounds.

   

  When ever I wish to embrace the sobering facts concerning my average, I do it the "reality" way. I look at my lifetime collection of per hole averages of par 3's (2.95) par 4's (3.87) and par 5's (4.43) and then apply them to the par set-up of our different course lay-outs. To me this will indicate my "forever" (so far) WGT average.

  If another "tier" is added, I would favor one based upon a great many factors other than "average", and name it, say, Hall of Fame; as an example, Yankee Jim would qualify 

  ~ SP ~ 

• TheDuckinator 1,691 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:04 AM

  spdemon:

   

  But how are the red tees any different than playing only one course ?  Hell i just play the ones that are easier to putt (for the most part ) and even some days that doesn't work right lol

  Some guys can shoot lights out all the time and on every course others can't but making the game easier  attracts more players and as good as the clubs and balls are people just get better everyday (with a lil more dollars spent )

  I can tell you for a fact that the red tee's are different. I just played a CC tourney using the red tee's on Best of Hardest and shot a 25. There is no way I could come close to that from the back tee's. The red tee tourneys are a blast to play. I really enjoy them, but that does not take away from the fact that they distort your average. Keep them, but don't let them affect averages.. 

• spdemon 1,588 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:18 AM

  Well personally i could really care less at this point (about tees,scores, or avgs) i just like to play with my buddies and shoot the shite I'll do tournies if I have no one that's on green to kill some time 

  TheDuckinator:

  I can tell you for a fact that the red tee's are different. I just played a CC tourney using the red tee's on Best of Hardest and shot a 25

  And I assume you did that with all the best gear correct, but that was your choice to do so and didn't have to even play it 

  I like the red or even med tees when i don't feel like using good balls and still want a decent score ( even doing them without a driver and 3 wood is nice) makes no difference if it hurts the avg or not 

  The par 3 and 5 courses count for the stats and as ranked but not the avg so there is another way to run the stats up too 

  I would prefer to see wgt work out the bugs and improve country clubs more before they even focused on this insignificant issue the cc vs cc clash is the main one for me that needs revamped

• spdemon 1,588 Posts

  Wed, Nov 12 2014 9:21 AM

  One more thing to add red tees or not there is always andies and bpb to shoot 25's and 26's almost all day for a few players lol just saying (from the tips)

  Edit button is missing from the forums reason the this just another bug i guess