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Country Club League - Winter 2011 Season

• slor 902 Posts

  Wed, Mar 9 2011 2:01 AM

  J2daROC:

  My guy reports the final match for QF between O Canada and YBR goes the wrong way...

  Congrats to doctortom and his squad on a hard fought 3-2 victory.

  Relegation bracket, here we come!

  LINEUPS RELEASED for week ending 13 March including...

   

  • The Division 3 Final
  • Division 1 Semifinals / Relegation Semifinals
  • Division 2 Semifinals / Relegation Round 1

  Fixture list (Rev 3)
  

  Submit lineups

  Lineups are released here on Wednesdays

  Submit results (home team only please)

  Results automatically update

   

   

• JohnHancock 1,905 Posts

  Wed, Mar 9 2011 6:24 AM

  slor:

  J2daROC:

  One option also would have been to have the 5th-8th places playoff to stay in Division 1, and the 1st-4th places playoff seperately. That would have divided the tournament in two... it's a balancing act. Your "B" team still might restore your club's presence in D1 still...

  In my view (minority I know), the rules for the whole tournament thing have got way too complicated.  Relegation and promotion should be decided by league position only, 2 up and 2 down, too many discrepancies any other way.

  By all means run a tournament, but this can be a separate competition where ALL teams (from any divisions) enter a simple knockout tourney, a cup to the winners.

  Don't want to sound negative Slor cos I know how much work you must put into this, but I find most games I play now I have no idea what is at stake, and that is a shame.

• slor 902 Posts

  Thu, Mar 10 2011 2:36 AM

  JohnHancock:

  Don't want to sound negative Slor cos I know how much work you must put into this, but I find most games I play now I have no idea what is at stake, and that is a shame.

  I appreciate that your current match doesn't have anything at stake for your team, and that isn't great for you or your opponents. We are working on this, and there are certain things that need to be balanced out. I'll just write a quick couple of paragraphs on my thinking.

  There are clear disadvantages to teams that have 1 less home match in the league stage than other teams, and also didn't get home advantage against teams around them in the standings, therefore I'm uneasy to put all promotion / relegation / championship (for D1) placings on a one round-robin league. This could be rectified by playing everyone home-and-away, but polling indicates that there isn't any appetite for a season of that length. It also could be rectified by assigning courses and conditions for all the league. I'm not sure that is great for the league either. 

  Therefore some sort of tournament / playoff system is needed, and clearly wanted by the league members, to both even out these disadvantages, but still to reward teams that have done well in the league season. I don't think that the current tournament system does that well enough. We also need to ensure that if we are going to have them, every team involved has something to play for. That's where the current system falters - there are teams in tournaments that already have their promotion / relegation issues decided already and therefore instead of a climax to the season, it's a bit of a let-down for teams in your position. I can only apologise for that kind of situation arising and I'm anxious for that not to happen again.

• JohnHancock 1,905 Posts

  Thu, Mar 10 2011 6:56 AM

  Slor - thanks for your detailed response!

  Home advantage - does it exist?  It is not as if you are asking the away team to play on an unfamiliar course.  I took a look at the stats from this latest regular season.  The home team won more games in Div One, but in Divs Two and Three more games were won by the away team.  Besides, if all divisions had uneven numbers of teams in, each team would play the same number of games home and away (ie 7 teams = 3 home and 3 away).  I still believe the league format to be the truest test of form over a season, and not the tournaments which are one-off games where anything can happen.

  If there really is an appetite for playoffs as you say, these would be better limited to relevant teams only, so, for instance, in a league of 7, position 1 goes up and 7 goes down automatically.  2 and 3 play-off for the second promotion, and 5 and 6 play-off for the second relegation place.  Much simpler and shorter I know, but as I said earlier, there are other tournament format competitions that can be run that can be separate from the league and involve everybody (much like League football and the FA Cup in the UK :)).

  Keep up the good work mate!

• jimbean346 3,006 Posts

  Thu, Mar 10 2011 8:36 AM

  By having promotion and relegation via the league prior to the knockouts, this will always lead to some sides having "dead rubbers" in the tournament phase if their fate has already been decided.

  I agree with JH that having less home games makes little to no difference as most of the players involved have at some time played played from all the different conditions involved - the only advantage is being able to practice in advance of the match to get used to the setup.

  John's idea of limiting a knockout phase to simple two teams makes sense but the general concensus from the survey was to have the end of season playoffs. I think what needed to be clearer was how the relegation would work through the playoff stage if the 7th & 8th seeds ended up in the final. The confusion that happened last week was quite apparent. For instance, I had assumed that a match between English Lakes and UK Golfers Elite would have to take place to decide the final relegated team so it was quite a surprise to see O Canada well and truly up the swanny after their surprise win against EL.

• JGtassiedevil 775 Posts

  Thu, Mar 10 2011 11:41 PM

  Im in favour of only 1 team being promoted and 1 relegated. Its more cut and dry whether its like John suggests - similar to FA cup which is simple and no one can contest or if there is a play off 5 v 8 6 v 7 then losers play off. If you finish 5th then lose 2 in a row to lower sides then I guess you deserve to be relegated, as far as finals series , maybe the top team wins straight through to the final the 2nd team - the semi and 3 and 4 play off for the right to continue. Im willing to accept whatever you decide just throwing some ideas around but I think there will be less disgruntled clubs if there is only 1 promoted/relegated team its more clear cut and less room for complaint.

• slor 902 Posts

  Fri, Mar 11 2011 2:06 AM

  JGtassiedevil:

  Im in favour of only 1 team being promoted and 1 relegated. Its more cut and dry whether its like John suggests - similar to FA cup which is simple and no one can contest or if there is a play off 5 v 8 6 v 7 then losers play off. If you finish 5th then lose 2 in a row to lower sides then I guess you deserve to be relegated, as far as finals series , maybe the top team wins straight through to the final the 2nd team - the semi and 3 and 4 play off for the right to continue. Im willing to accept whatever you decide just throwing some ideas around but I think there will be less disgruntled clubs if there is only 1 promoted/relegated team its more clear cut and less room for complaint.

  Thanks JG (and he is on the committee discussing things as well too!) - these are progressing well and I'm sure that a solid answer for next season will be out next week. I'm away for the weekend - looking forward to picking up responses Monday!

• Lisa03 5,910 Posts

  Fri, Mar 11 2011 12:40 PM

  Division  3  Finals---and 1 match to go---this is exciting!!!

  Fixture Number: 326  FINALS---games TBP by Mar 13

  Electra C vs GranSuperGolfMannarCC   1-1-2

  St Andrews Full 18, Hard Hole Locations, Medium Tees, Fast Greens, High Wind, 60 second clock

  ThunderBoltz v MUFENETE  2up

  PTgolf904 v  SBIRUL  HALVE

  DougBieker v  ILGOLFISTA  3dn

  Chuckiee  v  BRUZILLA

  Beryman  v  DEMCUG Halve

• JGtassiedevil 775 Posts

  Sat, Mar 12 2011 5:30 AM

  Im just seeking clarification on what i believe the rule to be. The outcome of the extra hole is irelevant unless the final match result from the entire round is even, is that the case?

  With one game to go The Yellow Brick Road Country Club leads 2 1/2 to The Normans Webb Collective 1 1/2. Whilst GoHardGoHome from the NWC A won the extra hole in the halved game. Does this mean that if The Normans Webb collective win the remaining game that they would proceed to the final?

  cheers

• doctortom 563 Posts

  Sat, Mar 12 2011 5:51 AM

  JGtassiedevil:

  Im just seeking clarification on what i believe the rule to be. The outcome of the extra hole is irelevant unless the final match result from the entire round is even, is that the case?

  With one game to go The Yellow Brick Road Country Club leads 2 1/2 to The Normans Webb Collective 1 1/2. Whilst GoHardGoHome from the NWC A won the extra hole in the halved game. Does this mean that if The Normans Webb collective win the remaining game that they would proceed to the final?

  cheers

  I'm sure Slor will confirm but I believe that in the event of NWC winning the last game and the match finishing 2.5-2.5, then we each pick a player for a 18H winner-takes-all P/O.