Forums

Bracket fraud part 2? (@ the mods)

• JoeMaverick 843 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 2:33 AM

  I didn't read all the arguments but I agree with shoe. The semi-finalist have lost in the semis, they get the credits they deserve, as a semi-finalist. If the finalists are WD, the finalists get nothing. So logical. 

  Which is less logical is to be WD when you are in the final :p

  Joe

• LuckySkreet 611 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 3:07 AM

  "BracketGate"

  Shoe..... 

  First, you have always handled any of my issues promptly, accurately, and in a responsible nature...... thanks in advance for all you do.

  -----------------------------------------------------

  What happens if my opponent or I don’t complete a round?

  If you are scheduled to play a round but do not post a score before the round ends then you will be eliminated from the bracket and your opponent will move on. If neither player completes the round then neither player will move on and the opponent in the next round will automatically win the match.

  ------------------------------------------------------

   

  Secondly......  According to the published rules;  I can understand your stance in deeming both players WD, or disqualified.  This being said, I would also think that players number 3 and 4 would immediately be declared "co-winners" and the purse determined via the normal playoff formulas and the prize money filtered down accordingly..  In regard to the original players who  were matched in the final round....a WD is a WD..... they should have no expectation of prize.   This would be considered the "hard line stance" on the rules.

  However, another option would be to dismiss the WD's in the final round, simply because these two players have advanced to the final round by winning in the previous rounds, and declare the final a tie and award equally.

   

  Speaking as a friend to you and the other members / players..... I would think it best for you to perhaps, send this issue up the ladder and not unfairly carry this burden on your back. I honestly think they should clarify and / or  amend the rules and distribute the awards accordingly.

  -Danny

• fmagnets 3,640 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 3:10 AM

  JoeMaverick:

  I didn't read all the arguments 

  That is  clear :-) If a semi-finalist can't play their semi, they still rightly get paid for 3rd/4th. If a finalist can't play and the other finalist completes, they get paid 2nd and 1st respectively, as it should be. The anomaly is if both finalists can't play, they get nothing and WGT keeps 80% of the purse for the entire event, a purse that is made up of the entry fees of the participants not WGT funds. Logic is the last thing that applies to this situation. 

• Jediknight1976 106 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 3:54 AM

  fmagnets:

  JoeMaverick:

  I didn't read all the arguments 

  That is  clear :-) If a semi-finalist can't play their semi, they still rightly get paid for 3rd/4th. If a finalist can't play and the other finalist completes, they get paid 2nd and 1st respectively, as it should be. The anomaly is if both finalists can't play, they get nothing and WGT keeps 80% of the purse for the entire event, a purse that is made up of the entry fees of the participants not WGT funds. Logic is the last thing that applies to this situation. 

  +1 That is exactly the problem as things currently stand!

  You can argue both sides of the coin as to whether you should receive the relevant payout if you don't post a score in a bracket semi or final. Personally I think you should as you have won the relevant matches to have at least reached that place in the bracket & deserve the relevant credits associated with that place.

  What can't be right, is currently getting paid out for not posting in certain situations & yet other times not (& this depending purely on whether your opponent posts a score or not)! Either you are entitled to receive credits if you don't post or you're not!  

  As things stand if you reach a semi & there's a chance you won't be around to play the potential final (work or family commitments etc.) - you're better off deliberately posting a bad score, lose & get the 4th place credits. If you win the semi & then can't play the final you potentially end up with nothing. I don't see any logic in that!   

• FRIENDofyourWIFE 305 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 3:59 AM

      This issue happens in skin challenge games… if a player withdraws or is disqualified in the middle of a game WGT holds the credits of the player, preventing that the remaining players can win the credits added by the person

   

   

   

   

    Liz

• JoeMaverick 843 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 4:36 AM

  fmagnets:

  JoeMaverick:

  I didn't read all the arguments 

  That is  clear :-) If a semi-finalist can't play their semi, they still rightly get paid for 3rd/4th. If a finalist can't play and the other finalist completes, they get paid 2nd and 1st respectively, as it should be. The anomaly is if both finalists can't play, they get nothing and WGT keeps 80% of the purse for the entire event, a purse that is made up of the entry fees of the participants not WGT funds. Logic is the last thing that applies to this situation. 

  I'm not sure to understand. If I don't play a semi, I get the credit for the semi? 

   

• JoeMaverick 843 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 4:53 AM

  I think I see the point:

  - If I don't play the semi, I get credits

  - If I don't play the final, I get credits

  - If I don't play the final and my opponent too, we get nothing.

  Indeed it's very ridiculous :p

  But if I was WGT, I would give nothing to a player who doesn't play a game, so in the 3 case I should get nothing (I know I know it's not what the players want to hear :p).

  In the RG's if there's not 30 players who have finished the round, the extra credits are distributed to the players. It's nice from WGT to do that because at their place, I would not give the credits :p

• fmagnets 3,640 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 4:59 AM

  JoeMaverick:

  I'm not sure to understand. If I don't play a semi, I get the credit for the semi? 

  If you don't play a semi, you are rightly treated as a losing semi-finalist, so get credited with your 3rd/4th place payout.

  I don't know what happens if both players in a semi fail to play. Do they split the 3rd/4th place payout, or do they get nothing?

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 5:20 AM

  WGTdbloshoe:

  We are not taking credits away or being devious in trying to trick players into losing credits.

  I am sorry but in my mind this is a non discussion and not something that needs to be answered over and over again.

  It's a discussion because people are upset.  Intentional or not this appears dishonest.  WGT just basically said, "oh by the way, we've kept all those credits without explicitly telling you about it for X number of years".

  Please allow me to explain why this is upsetting people using real life precedent.

  • If someone withdraws from a tennis match they do not make the other player serve to an empty court in order to advance.

  • If someone withdraws from the World Match Play Championship the opponent is not forced to play 10 holes to officially card a 10-UP victory.

  Is it really that surprising or unexpected that people would apply the transitive property here?

  Now combine that with the "shutdown attitude" we're receiving and here we are having a discussion.  Unfortunately, some are stepping into the realm of personal attack, but you'll get none of that here. 

  The response to this cannot simply equate to "buyer beware" and/or "I don't get why this is a big deal".  You can't redirect funds to the house without telling people and then be surprised when people aren't happy about it.

  It is your game and you are free to make the rules.  However, you do have the responsibility to make those rules abundantly clear and you have not done so here.  There is no section of the rules that even remotely covers this scenario.

  JoeMaverick:

  I think I see the point:
  - If I don't play the semi, I get credits
  - If I don't play the final, I get credits
  - If I don't play the final and my opponent too [or if there is no opponent], we get nothing.

  Please fix/update the rules or come up with a more reasonable solution than that.  The logic of this is incomprehensible.

  I feel like this is an, "oh crap, we need to own this and say we did it intentionally while we quietly fix it and let Shoe take the heat for us" software development moment.  Been there one or twice myself.  Not fun.

• 949 Posts

  Wed, Jan 27 2016 6:09 AM

  So for all of you that WILL NOW complete your rounds in brackets, here is another interesting tidbit that I didn't know until just a few minutes ago.

  When two players tie, if the scorecards are exactly a match, the winner is 

  "... the earlier-submitted entry between or among the tied entries will be deemed the better scoring entry."

  Pays to get your round completed early.