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BRING BACK CHAMPIONSHIP GREENS

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Mon, Mar 7 2011 10:44 PM

  I will disagree because there are natural  variables that will impact the result of a shot and the green speed.

  A little food for thought.   If a green is shaded by trees and another subject to direct sunlight all day long, it will have an impact on the following.

  1. How much the ball will react to spin.
  2. Influence the speed of the green.

  When you walk on a green you can get a feel for the speed if the green is firm under foot or there is a spongyness to the walk. 

  Also, if a green is subject to windy conditions all day and it is not surrounded by trees it will also influence the speed of the green.

  Thus, keeping in mind that this is a simulation and the variables used  provide consistency during the game, thus by introducing variables that impact the green speed will give a dynamic impact on the game.

  The question one may ask, have I experience this, you bet.

• danohi50 1,020 Posts

  Mon, Mar 7 2011 11:01 PM

  For along time..lie stance was on  the upcoming features list. It was never implemented, and eventualy was removed from the list. WGT has tried to make a realistic sim. They sadly have really  dropped the ball on this issue. I personally would have made a legend tee but not always as far back as posible.                 a

  AS you add lie stance and the ability to draw or fade the ball properly, you greatly increase realism and another way to screw up a shot thus adding some difficulty yet adding more fun. I hope this oversite will soon become a reality.

• uoducks63 53 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 1:57 AM

  imo the problem we know have with all the lower tiered players shooting there low scores is the fact that now anyone can have any club no matter their tier as long as they have enough points.  When we used to have master only clubs it gave people incentive to advance to get that equipment.  Now you can have a hack that continues playing practice rounds so his average doesnt go down too fast but still earn his points.  I mean come on why should anyone except a legend or maybe even a master have the ability to get a 282 driver paired with callaway balls. im sure we could all shot 28 or 29 consistantly from the red tees with that kind of distance. This has taken the issue of sandbagging to a whole new level, the chance to get the equipment without the penalty of being moved back on the tee box

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 2:46 AM

  Infinito, I'm with you on the need to mix things up to make it more challenging.

  As I have suggested before, WGT could introduce weather effects in addition to wind. For example, you could have fog or drizzle making the club a little slippery and thus introducing a greater margin of error on shots. Precipitation would also make the fairways and greens slower, so drives would not carry as far but approach shots would hold more. This would in turn mean, as you suggested, that the green speed could vary from hole to hole, just as it does in real life, especially in the course of the day, before and after the greens are watered, etc. etc.

  While it is true that the faster greens faced as players rise up the tiers are generally more difficult than the slower greens, it would be more challenging if good players were required to play different speeds of greens throughout the round instead of always playing the same green speeds. If a player is used to playing the tough tournament greens, for example, it will be harder for him to adjust to the occasional slow green - not easier.

  (You did make the fundamental error of using the word "unfair" in a discussion of golf, but I will not mention that.)

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 3:06 AM

  MBaggese:

  Also...it woul atually be more realistic t have high winds on one hole, no winds on the next, etc, etc....that's really what happen in the real world....so maybe advocate that instead?

  It might be realistic, but would make game even EASIER, people wouldn't have to aim for their shot with no wind.

  A few months ago people were complaining that they were getting out done by tour masters, or tour masters have an unfair advantage in ready go's, now legends have better equipment and can compete again, people are saying its TOO UNREALISTIC.  I just scored -9 at front 9 free tourney at St Andrews, but it was off white tees. That was probably my best round yet (but it was off white tees) playing off championship tes i doubt i could get -9, i think i've only ever had -8 and that was a one off, i WAS playing superbly, but as i said, a one off.  Yes i score -6 on average for St Andrews front 9, but thats because i know the course, like many others.  If someone wins a ready go with 27, then he/she desreves it, i've only won a single ready go (plenty of 2nds) and that was with a score of 59 at St Andrews, and in the process i beat a lot of good players, that made my day and i was well happy, but i don't expect to do it again for a long time, usually i come in top 10/15, and i'm happy if a break even or win a few extra credits.

  But something does need to be done, when you see someone who is at level 76 but still an amature or pro, and is using a Taylor made Tri and Callways off RED TEES.  If you're at level 76 or above, surely you should be at least a tour master.  Maybe introduce a new system, so even if you are a hack and you reach level 70 then you automatically become a master/tour master because you have the equipment anyway and it would stop the sandbaggers.

• stratman45us 13 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 3:35 AM

  i totally agree.

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 3:47 AM

  Yes the low scores are getting outa hand now..It is a computer game and like all computer games if you keep playing it then your going to get better...... Now saying that,  I can remember last year too, I think Kiahwah F9 R/G had the Championship greens back then..this is why shooting 32-34 were winning comps. I hated em...lol... but kept playing and I think I shot a 33 one day and got a heap of credits back..that was good. 

  I must admit, last year 30 was winning St.Andrews... as what has been said, now to win you basically have to shoot 27 or lower and that's not good. The tougher couses like Beth and Oakmont...lots of scores under 30/60.. The free tournys, you look at the leaderboard and theres heaps of scores under 30/60....lol.

  What has changed since then?.  It's not hard to work out.... Clubs, Balls and alot of good players starting again. Maybe WGT needs to start a new Legend Tier for the Elite and that can have the different conditions with Championship greens.  Maybe WGT can Rank all your games.  Stop the practice games, have a driving range and putting green, bunker for practice and every full round you play is ranked.

  I've said this before... the best thing about this game is you get on the Tee and go SMACK, apart from the positioning of your shots and spin or no spin on golf balls. Other puter games you can move ya feet, change ya grip, do this and that (Taking you 5mins for each shot) and end up doing the Hokey Pokey ...lol.. That's not good.

  Cheers

     Roger

• MioKontic 4,643 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 3:52 AM

  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, you can't please everyone.  My personal view is that the game has gotten easier because of the Callaway balls.  Take those away and I think the scores would once again increase, maybe not greatly, but by one or two shots.  And that would then seperate the men from the boys; those that can control the inferior ball would end up at the top of the pile.  The new clubs on the other hand don't really have as much bearing on the score as the ball as it is the approach shot and how well it is executed that is the telling factor.  In real golf give a novice a Pro V1 (or the like) ball and I can guarantee you they will not be able to stop the ball dead on the green let alone spin it back.  A better-than-average player could stop a ball fairly consistently on soft-ish greens and occasionally (inconsistently) spin it back.  A pro can spin a ball back regularly, but even then it's if they've had a good strike.  I remember the likes of Greg Norman consistently having problems by consistently getting too much backspin and losing control.  And how many times have you seen a ball spin back off greens into surrounding water at Augusta.

  As much as I like the Callaway ball, I'd be in favour of it being scrapped.  Unfortunately I cannot see this happening; in my opinion the majority of regular players now use one of the Callaway balls... and that's a big increase in income for WGT.

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 4:50 AM

  But one of the reasons we're seing very low scores in the free tournaments at the moment is because the legend tier are playing off tour master tees,(even Oakmont & bethpage was off blue tees) so the scores are the same as they were in the old days when it was only master the top tier.  I'm sure when the tournaments go back to playing legends off championship tees the scores will come down again.

  But one thing it does point out is how much of an advantage a tour master gets playing off those tees because all legends were scoring very well.  Enjoy the low scores while you can, because i bet we'll be back to black tees pretty soon .(:

• Bristoluk 412 Posts

  Tue, Mar 8 2011 5:58 AM

  I for 1 am sick of hearing how poorly off legends are and how they are treated in this game, you all chose to become legends with your time and dedication to this game, but you should not be treated any different than say  a newcomer ie a hack. i hope to b a legend 1 day, if i get good enough, this game is for all , not just legends. if is that bad for u then quit and start again and stay as a master or tour master, allthough you might have some valied point a lot aint they are just about urselves stop moaning and just get on with this great game, its never going to be prefect for everyone, but they do the best they can