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Is virtual equipment out pacing good play?

• hollj00 8 Posts

  Mon, Aug 24 2009 5:58 PM

  i would agree witht he op, however you have to master the new equpiment.  i struggle with scoring any where from -3 to +3.  i have upgraded all but the putter, i don't see a huge point.  that's the last club i want to change.  with that being said i have became very confterable with chipping and pitching to an extent i can rely on it (thanks for the MP i've learned my skills from watching others).  what i have an issue with is the iron play, if you hit a 153 yd iron playing it 143 and it comes up to only 115 minimal wind and from the fairway just an example.  anyway i enjoy the game even though fusterating with some of the issues but hey it's free i can't complain that much.

• thunderbird 381 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 6:59 AM

  For the most part the equipment hasn't changed much in terms of who is on the top of the leaderboard at least in the Masters tier.  I think that fore the exception of a few it has been the same people for the last few months.  The scores I have shot are relatively the same.  I think the putter is the one club that has made a significant difference because you can miss the line and still make the putt.  A first in WGT world.  It maybe help a few people because like in real life the shorter the club you hit into the green the more forgiveness is available and the margin of error increasing.  Example a 5% miss with a 200 yard shot gives you a 30ft putt (that you are aiming correctly) while a 150 yard shot with a 5% miss equates to 22.5 ft and 100 yard shot with a 5% miss well you get it.  So overall with people hitting 30-40 yards farther their misses are closer to the hole.  I have found that I may have dropped one shot a round since the change.  Which in this game is quite significant.  The biggest differences being on Bethpage now that all holes are reachable with the right wind. 

• hbthree 478 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 7:50 AM

  thunderbird:

  For the most part the equipment hasn't changed much in terms of who is on the top of the leaderboard at least in the Masters tier.  I think that fore the exception of a few it has been the same people for the last few months.  The scores I have shot are relatively the same.  I think the putter is the one club that has made a significant difference because you can miss the line and still make the putt.  A first in WGT world.  It maybe help a few people because like in real life the shorter the club you hit into the green the more forgiveness is available and the margin of error increasing.  Example a 5% miss with a 200 yard shot gives you a 30ft putt (that you are aiming correctly) while a 150 yard shot with a 5% miss equates to 22.5 ft and 100 yard shot with a 5% miss well you get it.  So overall with people hitting 30-40 yards farther their misses are closer to the hole.  I have found that I may have dropped one shot a round since the change.  Which in this game is quite significant.  The biggest differences being on Bethpage now that all holes are reachable with the right wind. 

  Well reasoned, well said...HBThree

• Weirsy 84 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 4:48 PM

  OK how about a comparison here. Is it really about the clubs ? The putting, the driving, the backspin. Is it course management ? If we all want close to reality, than lets take a look at some real vs virtual stats. Here is a list of the TOP touring player in each category stacked against our very own Lee and Tibbets. Not pickin on you guys.... you`re the best in WGT and congrats.... but best suited for the comparison.

  Stat                                   PGA Pro                                             Lee                  Tibbets
  
  Avg Driving Distance    Robert Garrigus        312.8            242                 238
  Driving Accurancy         David Toms                73.90%        93.55%         92.95%
  Longest Drive                Charley Hoffman       467               320                337
  Greens in Reg              John Senden             71.46%         74.67%         77.48%
  Putts per round             Brad Faxon                 27.88            16.02             14.38
  Putts per GIR                Anthony Kim               1.721            1.32                1.25
  Scoring                          Tiger Woods                69.15            57.36            58.38
  
  So what can we learn from this ? Well.....

  1) it has nothing to do with our new drivers. We are well below average and well off longest drive.

  2) Driving accuracy however is far too high and this has been stated in other threads in the forum.

  3) Greens in regulation is a little high but not too bad. Fix in driving accuracy would fix that.

  4) Putts per round is well below tour average. Either the average putting distance is much closer in WGT and irons are too accurate or the putting is easier

  5) And the #1 glaring stat........ Putts per round more than 10 better !?!?! 16 and 14 guys ? That means more than one chip/appoach per round.

  Result is more than 10 shots better than the worlds greatest player el Tigre, who btw doesn't top any of these lists and only cracks the Top 4 in scrambles. Funny

  So what can we discern from all this ??? OK besides the whole quitting thing.... that`s been beaten too death, most of us do it, I do it, and those who say they don`t, .......well you know the line.

  1) Despite what everyone says.... the putting is too easy !

  2) The driving is too accurate

  3) There is something in the program that has enables you to hole too many approaches and chips. Not judging here lads.... just da stats jacks.

  Now what`s going to happen when we are able to shape shots and suck it back on backspin. I`d say not much actually, cause that`s not where the low scoring is coming from.

  What say ?? Fire away !!!

   

   

   

   

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 6:34 PM

  You know what they say... there's lies, damned lies, and then statistics... lol

  Nicely researched Weirsy.. thanks for pointing us to that.

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 7:37 PM

  Hey Bud, very well put together.... BUT, I have one issue with your analysis.  The Putts per round statistic is fundamentally flawed and has been so since the introduction of 18 hole stroke play ability on Kiawah.  Before there was the ability to play a full 18 holes, this average represented the amount of strokes per 9 hole round!!  After the inclusion of full 18 hole rounds it was not changed to adjust for whether you were playing 9 or 18 holes.  All it cares about (and I believe it is still the case now) is the number of putts at the conclusion of the round.  So this stat is a mishmash average of 9 hole and 18 hole putt totals.   See here for the original thread, pointed out by non other than NASAGolfer!  If I had to render a guess right now my average per 18 holes would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 22-23. And yes it is still well below the best on the PGA Tour, but then again I think it's safe to say that a lot of the top players know these greens like the back of their hands.  There are many places where I do not even need to read the break anymore, I just know what it's going to do.  Too much repetition!

  The other thing that needs to be mentioned is that these stat are in essence very outdated since they have been accumulated since the beginning of beta for those that have been around that long.  There have been numerous game changing revisions over the almost 1 year that this has been in open beta, for instance, do you really think we average less than 250 yards right now when our drivers can go at least 265 yards into the strongest winds.  But this is another old debate that was never really addressed..... See here for a plethora of content on the subject

• BOFFMEN 337 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 9:08 PM

  Well, I’m not sure how you missed it Weirsy but the avg. distance to pin on WGT for the above mentioned players is 3 times better than the best pro on tour.

   

  TIBBETS is 10 ft.

  AVATARLEE is 11 ft.

   

  Proximity to Hole
  Rank	Leader	Rounds	Total
  1	Jason Bohn	66	30' 10"

   

  The putting isn’t "too easy" on WGT but getting closer to the hole sure is…by a huge margin.

   

  -BM

   

   

• BOFFMEN 337 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 9:18 PM

  Pretty great guess AVATARLEE since your putting average per hole is 1.32

  1.32 x 18 = 23.76

   

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Tue, Aug 25 2009 9:51 PM

  I joined during the week of the U.S. Open.  Allot of the holes I couldn't even reach the fairway with the starter clubs.  I marveled at the scores that were being recorded to qualify for the virtual U.S. Open.  Yet, I manage to shoot a respectable round, and ran out of time to qualify.  So I question myself, how are these gentlemen doing it from these tees.  Even the upgrade clubs at the time wouldn't allow you to reach some of the fairways.  As for my stats, that is where it all started not very good at all.  Anyway, a little of topic;

  I do believe that the clubs distances should be capped.  The driver for example, in my opinion should be capped to 260 yards (under no wind conditions).  This would provide the extra skill to hit long irons into greens on the long par 4's, and or play position on the par 5's.  Long irons don't stop on a dime, unless your hitting into a strong head wind. For example, on the 7th hole on BethPage Black, I have never reached in 2 except in the August International tournament. 

  Simulated golf will never be the same as real golf.  However, were all here to have fun and improve. The meter speed inconsistencies should not be noticeable, thus providing a little inaccuracies in your game.

  Also, the addition of an Elite Tier maybe required.   For example, people shooting 61 or better maybe required to move up a tier.  Just my thoughts.  The addition of a new tier will provide more competition for the highly skill players, and provide better challenges for the players on the master tier.

• Weirsy 84 Posts

  Wed, Aug 26 2009 10:53 AM

  Thanks for pointing that out Lee.... of course Stats are right only 77.63% of the time :-) I thought the drive avg seemed a little off. As for knowing the greens, sure I'd say that helps.

  For some reason I thought the stats were wiped out at some point, post 9 hole. Tibbets, you are correct about being closer to the hole in WGT, and I eluded to that. I don't have that much time to get all the stats, just a first crack. Guess what would be more accurate for the putting is what is the % of putts made from 10 feet on the PGA tour to analyze whether the putting is too accurate or not. I can't find the stat, only putts from "inside" 10 feet, which would include tap ins, which doesn't really help.

  So what have we narrowed it down to ? Less accurate drives and irons ?