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Ok WGT

• Luckystar5 1,641 Posts

  Fri, Feb 23 2018 6:23 PM

  Robert1893:

  Miantiao:

  Here's the thing, why should you apologise if you've offended somebody?

  
  Because I believe it's the right thing to do. 

   

  Miantiao:

  Why should people think it their right not to be offended, or demand some form of explanation or apology because they were offended? 

  
  I never suggested that anyone has a right to not to be offended or to demand an apology. Still, nice straw man. You set it up and knocked it down. 

   

  Miantiao:

  I don't hide behind the line that some people need to toughen up and deal with being offended, because its the truth.

  
  Simply asserting something is true doesn't make it true.

   

  Miantiao:

  Quite a few of those that can't deal with being offended end up attempting to force their subjective sensibilities onto others through coerced apologies, freedom restricting legislation, and even genocide.

  
  I don't even know what to do with that hyperbole. But I will note this: this has to set some sort of speed record for going from personal offense to genocide. 

   

  Miantiao:

  No, I don't care who I offend.

  
  That much is clear. I suppose if one wants to live a life like that, it's obviously a person's prerogative. Strikes me as a lousy way to go through life, not caring the effect that one's actions or words have on others.
  
  I guess I learned a simple lesson a long time ago: it's not about me. I don't always live up to that lesson. But at least I'm willing to acknowledge when I fall short, which I often do. That fact as well as my faith provide me with a great deal of contentment. And I'd much rather have that contentment or peace than the alternative.

    If we were someplace where I could, I'd buy you a drink sir!  Well played! 

   

• borntobesting 9,706 Posts

  Fri, Feb 23 2018 8:23 PM

  One thing that everyone seems to ignore is what Chad Nelson AKA MisterWGT has said about VEM. Several times he has stated yes the VEM  patent exsists but it has never been implemented. He went on to say what you are seeing is the normal deviation built into the game. 

   

   

• Miantiao 401 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 3:50 AM

  Miantiao:

  Here's the thing, why should you apologise if you've offended somebody?

  
  Because I believe it's the right thing to do. 

  Miantiao:

  Here's the thing, why should you apologise if you've offended somebody?

  
  Because I believe it's the right thing to do.

  Even if you're words are truth?

  Luckystar5:

  
  I never suggested that anyone has a right to not to be offended or to demand an apology. Still, nice straw man. You set it up and knocked it down. 

  The problem is that many do, and the implications of such in many instances affect civil laws including freedom of speech.

  Luckystar5:

  Simply asserting something is true doesn't make it true.

  You stole that line from Trump, the NRA, the Bible?

  Luckystar5:

  Miantiao:

  Quite a few of those that can't deal with being offended end up attempting to force their subjective sensibilities onto others through coerced apologies, freedom restricting legislation, and even genocide.

  
  I don't even know what to do with that hyperbole. But I will note this: this has to set some sort of speed record for going from personal offense to genocide. 

  Hyperbole? Your soldiers are fighting in Syria and other parts of the world because some people are hell bent on destroying liberal democratic society because they find it offensive. Hitler was offended by Jews. Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot were all offended by Capitalism. It strikes me that you seem to not understand that from little things big things grow...

  Luckystar5:

  Miantiao:

  No, I don't care who I offend.

  
  That much is clear. I suppose if one wants to live a life like that, it's obviously a person's prerogative. Strikes me as a lousy way to go through life, not caring the effect that one's actions or words have on others.

  I don't care, and I've said as much. If a grown adult can't deal with being offended, then that adult has yet to grow up. Being offended is intrinsic to the human condition.

   

• Robert1893 7,721 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 6:28 AM

  Luckystar5:

  If we were someplace where I could, I'd buy you a drink sir!  Well played! 

  
  
  Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it. 

• Robert1893 7,721 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 6:56 AM

  Miantiao:

  I don't care, and I've said as much.

  
  
  Like I wrote, your position on that point is extremely clear. Still, you seem to care enough to go to great lengths to defend your position. 
  
  But since we're repeating ourselves here, whether or not being offended is intrinsic to the human condition, I'm really unsure. Indeed, I don't even know what that means. Nevertheless, I do know this: being offensive shouldn't be.

• el3n1 4,502 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 8:17 AM

  I somewhat gave up on trying to help, because it became clear to me Miantiao "didn't care" or simply chose to embrace what I felt were distorted conclusions. 

  I don't feel I tried to insult him per se, I feel I may have suggested his behavior his actions were "obstinant" and it appears delusional to portray a conclusion that has not been proven in any way.  He continued to ignore and refuse to provide a documented test run of his own to try and support what I still feel is an exaggerated claim.  

  I also feel I tried to point out while some of his points appear valid his conclusion regarding the extremely limited or precision of clubs having a 1-2 foot tolerance simply do not add up and have not been proven by any test or documentation that could also be verified by another player.  The test points I provided could be upheld by any other player should they choose to take the time to test on their own, knowing their is still a slight variance in the clubs and conditions.

  I can't recall if he ever directly criticized me other than taking a position that contradicted my own without acknowledging the direct efforts I made or others made to point out his conclusion does not appear valid.  

  Choosing to remain stubborn or obstinant in the face of what others have attempted to explain, does not make him right or uphold his position.  He has a "perception" or belief that does not coincide with what I have learned and heard or read by others with far more experience than my own.  

  I also agree with Robert choosing to remain indignant is no excuse in a community where we are working to help each other, not break each other down.  I have genuinely valued the help and support and insights offered by others.  I have also acknowledged that at times given I have less experience on WGT I have not fully understood the scope and details of the game, but that is why I turned to players with far more experience to help me understand and learn about it.  

  I simply felt like I was talking to a brick wall after a certain point and that is not enjoyable or going to get any where.  I feel comfortable knowing what I do and knowing that what I have learned is supported by others and the documented effort I attempted could also be replicated.  The same can not be said for our friend.  So, I left it at that and chose to move on, especially when Sean felt the discussion was getting heated.  It is just a golf game and not worth the grief.  

   

   

• Miantiao 401 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 1:49 PM

  Robert1893:

  Miantiao:

  I don't care, and I've said as much.

  
  
  Like I wrote, your position on that point is extremely clear. Still, you seem to care enough to go to great lengths to defend your position. 
  
  But since we're repeating ourselves here, whether or not being offended is intrinsic to the human condition, I'm really unsure. Indeed, I don't even know what that means. Nevertheless, I do know this: being offensive shouldn't be.

  I wouldn't expect you to understand.

  I would hate to hurt your feelings.

  Being offensive is intrinsic to debate. Monty Python's Life of Brian was so offensive to many people that it was banned when first released. 

  I've no respect for such people. I've no respect for anybody that because they find something offensive to their own subjective sensibilities, resulting in attempts to change civil or criminal law accordingly.

  Being critical is often offensive.

  I'm not offended, just astounded that you fail to comprehend the intrinsic value to the progressive liberalisation of humanity of offending others feelings. It's part of life, deal with it.

• 11BC2 555 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 4:21 PM

  Robert1893:

  But since we're repeating ourselves here, whether or not being offended is intrinsic to the human condition, I'm really unsure. Indeed, I don't even know what that means.

  I read this to him being rather naturalistic, materialist, and deterministic.  This makes me imagine he holds people like Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins in high regards.  If you watch those guys speak in person (or via video) they are quite unpleasant (to put it mildly).  Equally so in their books.

  Of course I could be way off on my read.  I will say if my read is somewhat close it puts things in better perspective in regards to forum interaction.  But again, to each their own.  It's their life.

• Robert1893 7,721 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 6:40 PM

  11BC2:

  I read this to him being rather naturalistic, materialist, and deterministic.  This makes me imagine he holds people like Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins in high regards.  If you watch those guys speak in person (or via video) they are quite unpleasant (to put it mildly).  Equally so in their books.

  Actually, Hitchens is who this whole discussion reminds me of more. Well, at least, the stuff about offense. And from what I remember about what Hitchens said, I agree. If I recall correctly, Hitchens basically said that saying "I'm offended" is not an argument or a substantive reply. 
  
  And he's right about that. No argument there. Additionally, I'm not willing to reduce everything to the least common denominator. That is to say, simply because someone claims to be offended does not mean that the communication (whether it be written or oral) actually is offensive. 
  
  The other person references Monty Python. That's funny stuff right there. But here's the key: Monty Python does not set out (primarily) to offend. That is not the purpose of their humor. Or better, that's not how I've taken their humor. That someone would be offended does not necessarily make their humor offensive. 
  
  Oh well, everybody... let's look at the bright side of life! :-)
  
  
  

• Robert1893 7,721 Posts

  Sat, Feb 24 2018 6:48 PM

  Miantiao:

  I wouldn't expect you to understand.

  
  Yes, because I've shown myself to be quite uneducated and slow witted. Why would anyone expect me to understand? My God! It's a wonder I can read, let alone comprehend, multi-syllabic words.

   

  Miantiao:

  I would hate to hurt your feelings.

  I never wrote that I was easily offended. So, I don't know where that comment came from. 

   

  Miantiao:

  I'm not offended, just astounded that you fail to comprehend the intrinsic value to the progressive liberalisation of humanity of offending others feelings. It's part of life, deal with it

  
  
  I bet that sounded a whole lot better in your head.