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Mastering game used to take years

• Naturali 684 Posts

  Wed, Feb 21 2018 5:39 PM

  AgentBrown123:

  More than any year in the past I've noticed an increased amount of players who started in 2016/2017 and are shooting to me unrealistic scores while achieving certain stats that takes years of experience and knowledge.

  Their stats resembling players who've been at this game for several years.

  You could argue to their side:

  1. The game is much easier than when we started. (2010 equipment irons, nikes)

  2. All the guides out there that give spot on numbers

  3. Closing down old accounts legitimately and opening new accounts (I heard this is possible)

  When looking through stats and one thing that really stands out like a sore thumb is the putting. When you see less than or around a 1.3 putts per hole average and also the 5-10ft and 10-25ft% at 20% and 9% + mark. It seems highly unlikely you bring that down to this in 1 year. 

  I've seen some of these high credit RG winners. Legends that play one ranked round per week and it just happens that they take down the 1000c RG. Makes me want to stop playing those tourneys. It's just throwing credits away. But I just can't help myself. I fire at 'em anyway.

  My stats are a very close fit to the categories you mention above. 20 Months or so into the game. 1.33 putts per hole. My longer putt percentage could use some work. But the shorter ones are solid and improving. So, I'll chime in with some perspective from a fairly new guy with good stats.

  For me, #2 fits. Everything is out there.

  When I started playing WGT, it was a long Fourth of July weekend that rained the whole time. So I played ALOT of WGT golf. I was hooked. But I sucked just like we all do at first.

  I read the forums for all the tips. From equipment, to wind adjustments, to elevation adjustments, to putting techniques, etc. I have an analytical mind and am an estimator by trade. So it was all pretty fun for me to try to reverse engineer all that info. And it is a lot of info... but it's all there for ya if you dig around.

  Equipment:

  I used this equipment chart to map out which equipment to purchase and at what level to do it. Equipment Chart

  Wind/Elevation Adjustment:

  I used this general wind/adjustment aid to calculate the approach shots. Bilko's Wind Calculator

  I now use my own spreadsheet after reverse engineering the numbers from that program. It makes entering the numbers faster for me and I can adjust the factors to fit my equipment and my research on launch angles/landing angles/spin affect etc. LOL... call me a geek but I actually did that.

  Putting Distances:

  The forum is full of formulas for this and they are all very close to the same. However, almost all of them are best used for putts between 6 and 15 ft in length. For longer putts, those formulas make you hit it too far. For shorter puts, the formulas make you leave them short.

  In other words, it is not linear. It's sort of parabolic. The best calculator I've seen for putting distances is Young46's calculator. Just search on his YouTube channel or send him a message if you can't find it.

  While you're there, watch his putting tip videos. This leads me to:

  Putting Break:

  Young46 also has the best videos for reading the break. I watched everything I could find on how to read the break. He goes over some techniques like the JC Snead method and Tekoma's aim points etc.

  I derived my putting method from those. It is my own calculation but I wouldn't have come up with it for a while without watching his videos. I posted the formula on here before but here it is again:

  ((green speed / dot speed in seconds) * (distance in feet - elevation in inches))/1.25

  That is the basic formula for calculating the break IF you hit it the proper speed. It works for me, but I also tend hit it the putt slightly firmer, so I adjust the break accordingly. Anyway, that formula will get you looking at the right area to aim. Then make adjustment based on your own experience.

  There's 2 other formulas that I use but that one will serve you right for 90% of all putts. The other 2 formulas calculate the break if I am going to ram the putt or if the putt is severely downhill and I'm going to hit it the put less than half of what the total length is. The ol' slippery slope situation.

  Punch Distances:

  I don't have the link offhand. But WaLk0fLiFe posted somewhere the definitive punch chart for the Cleveland 64* Wedge. You might check his profile or Youtube Channel.

  Anyway, I didn't learn all this in a matter of months. But my progress was definitely boosted by all the information that is out there already. Especially Young46's YouTube videos. It would have taken much much longer to figure this out without the pioneers on this forum that posted their info for all posterity.

  As a matter of fact, as I was coming up through Legend Tier, you were nice enough to post something about giving away your mapped distances with certain iron/ball combos. I ran across that post a little late in the thread. You were going to retire but, I sent you a friend request anyway and asked for the chart. Never got that chart, but I chalked it up to the retirement. Probably worked out better for me in the long run to just run through a few sleeves and map the higher level equipment myself. But I appreciate that you were on the forums trying to help.

  TLDR ;)

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Wed, Feb 21 2018 8:56 PM

  el3n1:

  It seems some of the issues are a bit more suspect than others.  Some players, especially restarters or multi account's can really work the system they know how to do it.  But, they have to work around WGT "general guidelines"... for the most part.

  But when they circumvent WGT and either exploit or work around those guidelines it become a much more questionable act ethically.  People will debate that because some people have no qualms or ethical principles they follow so they will do what ever they want and justify it any way they want to.  

  It doesn't make it valid or mean they are complying with the guidelines set.  I came across a player the other night with a L55 driver and L54 irons while only being a L49 player.  He claims he purchased the items as part of a bundle deal, but I have never known of WGT to sale equipment to a player unless they were of a sufficient level.  I could be wrong.  This person has been playing for less than 2 months start date was in Jan of 2018 and these were their very first 3 ranked rounds played...

  01.05.18	St Andrews Links: The Old Course	Back 9	Hack	34
  01.04.18	Chambers Bay	Back 9	Hack	30
  01.04.18	Pebble Beach Golf Links	Back 9	Hack	33

  If WGT is allowing this, then WGT is perpetuating the very problem they are suppose to be minimizes or restricting from happening.  

  It isn't simply the equipment, it is the means that these players have to move up the levels so quickly to reacquire equipment or purchase equipment even before they have reached an appropriate level.  These are issues WGT does have control over so even if they do take action against someone "cheating" or restarting that player has a fast track to get back in the game and do the same thing, while they continue to "win" or "clean up credits" in the lower tier credit tournaments.  

  It seems problematic on multiple levels without an easy solution.

  Exactly what I was thinking but lacking the way to explain it intelligently. You couldn't have said it better.

  Thanks!!

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Wed, Feb 21 2018 9:06 PM

  el3n1

  The problem is they need new players like you're saying, wgt understands they want to progress quickly and wgt needs people to sustain the eco system, purchasing balls etc.

  So wgt makes it easy to move up levels and now the idiots that have taken advantage of multi accounting in the past have a highway set for them to easily get into position with the level to use top irons and balls to earn serious credits.

  The new owners "topgolf" want to make a quicker buck but in turn will burn their ***. They should learn from the predecessors, they had logic and reasons behind their decisions and shouldn't change too much from course if they want to last long

• 9,041 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 1:15 AM

  el3n1:

  He claims he purchased the items as part of a bundle deal, but I have never known of WGT to sale equipment to a player unless they were of a sufficient level.  I could be wrong. 

  WGT DO sell 'bundles' on mobile with clubs in, that are below the required level.

  There was a thread on here in October  2016

  Mid level 80  players with L90 TM irons, from a 'bundle'.

  Yet another example that mobile dominates their long term plans...

• SidersBest 873 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:42 AM

  JUST A THOUGHT!

  Why do we measure other people succcess based on our experience?

  The best score I have registered on WGT is when I challenged my teenage grandson to beat my score. And so he did.

  These youngsters have been playing mobile games for 20 years or longer. Me, I stumbled upon this game at work, bored with solitaire about 3 years ago.

  I play the game because I like it. I play the 'free' weeklys because they cost me nothing, and every now an then I finish in the top 70. 

  I don't know how old my opponient is when I play head to head or how much experience he or she has. I just know that I lost what I could afford to loose and not get upset about it.

  Like I said "It's Just a thought" 

   

  Siders Best

• DAZZA501 5,972 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:02 AM

  el3n1:

  01.05.18	St Andrews Links: The Old Course	Back 9	Hack	34
  01.04.18	Chambers Bay	Back 9	Hack	30
  01.04.18	Pebble Beach Golf Links	Back 9	Hack	33

  This is not that out of the ordinary for someone just starting. My lad signed up a few weeks ago after watching me play and wanted to play himself. He's only 11 but he's a gamer. He shot a 33 1st game and then a 38 in UEL. He didn't find it that hard. Never played again though as he's too in to playing Fortnite Battle Royale :-)

• el3n1 4,502 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:26 AM

  DAZZA501:

  This is not that out of the ordinary for someone just starting. My lad signed up a few weeks ago after watching me play and wanted to play himself. He's only 11 but he's a gamer. He shot a 33 1st game and then a 38 in UEL. He didn't find it that hard.

  I get what you are saying, regarding the "gamer generation" but on your very first day with starter equipment on chambers bay?

  I recall some of those holes as unreachable with the starter equipment so this is extremely out of the norm...I would have to go back and reload starter gear and a starter ball or a version of the free cally ball they often offer but knowing the greens and the necessary speed to hit on those greens can often take finesse that a new player would not be aware of while playing a ranked round!   St Andrews is much easier to see those type of scores than Chambers bay.  

  I won't say it can't happen, but it is far more unlikely to have that kind of consistency 3 rounds in a row across three different courses.  And the only way to identify "suspicious" play is by trying to look at things that appear as "outliers" without definitive proof that someone is doing something nefarious.

  agentbrown123:

  The problem is they need new players like you're saying, wgt understands they want to progress quickly and wgt needs people to sustain the eco system, purchasing balls etc...

  I have tried to share some concerns with them in messages through customer support, but it is very hard to get feedback on those issues.  I genuinely appreciate when they do reimburse me for a transaction that goes wrong, like when buying balls through the game client was having problems and they still honored the full purchase when only 1 ball was received.  WGT has reimbursed me coins when someone that appears to be using a glitch to back out of a match and get credit for a win when they clearly likely to lose.  I feel they do recognize that a culture of "cheating" can have a negative impact on the game experience...but it is a numbers game...it may only get serious consideration when the problem becomes so pervasive they have to do something more direct to address it or risk the long term valued customers all walking away.  It just doesn't look like it is at that point. 

  If top players like yourself stopped being able to win credits in Ready Go's because "cheaters" were preventing even the very best from being able to win those events, then it may be a  change or die out scenario...

  @alcaucin and good to know, adds to the problem I think, but would at least force a restarter to put money into the game which WGT would want to happen.  the issue is when they are not doing so and pilfering off credits of those attempting to play the game legitimately.

  
  

• el3n1 4,502 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:41 AM

  Naturali:

  So, I'll chime in with some perspective from a fairly new guy with good stats.

  I am no where close to the category of yourself or others, but I appreciate what you have shared.  While I am no where near that level, I feel like a mediocre legend...I do feel I have progressed well within a year's time for much of the same reasons you share!

  My putting stats are skewed because I played easy par 3's and custom courses to be able to unlock better clubs because I felt it may be the only way for me to compete with the stronger players.  I have scoured  a lot of the putting videos myself but know my putting still needs work.  I just might reach out to you as well if it is not imposing on you, I respect some players feel inclined to hold onto their trade secrets.  Thanks again for sharing!

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:52 AM

  el3n1:

  I respect some players feel inclined to hold onto their trade secrets.

  What's to respect? That's a selfish move that just exposes one for being a jerk. Learn it-share it.

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Thu, Feb 22 2018 10:33 AM

  YankeeJim:

  el3n1:

  I respect some players feel inclined to hold onto their trade secrets.

  What's to respect? That's a selfish move that just exposes one for being a jerk. Learn it-share it.

  I think it's a choice personally. If you put the work in and time into figuring out a formula and its winning you big time games, I wouldn't expect that person to give me their secret. That's not being a jerk imo, that's being smart : )