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sandbagging out of control

• FuzzyBallz 179 Posts

  Wed, Oct 19 2011 11:20 AM

  I have posted on this type of post in the past. How many topics are there now that are similar to this topic?
  Some say that any player after lvl ? and still at pro / tour pro tee box are sand bagging.
  Some say any player that is using lvl ? gear is sand bagging.
  So I believe I have it straight, if I understand it all correctly. Any player that is above lvl 65 and uses any gear after that lvl is sand bagging. After looking at their stats I see they hit 50 to 80 percent of fairways, they have a GIR of 60 to 70 percent with a putt average of 2 or more. Don't those stats look more like a Bogey golfer / i.e. duffer then a sand bagger.

  Take my stats as an example if you want at level 78

  Stroke Play Score Average - 70.28 Par 3 average - 3.39 / Par 4 - 4.41 / Par 5 - 4.96 GIR - 63.24 / Putting Average Per Hole - 1.90

  Does that really look like stats of a sand bagger, does that really look like a player if you are shooting mid 60's that is actually going to beat you by 2 strokes or even have a chance of keeping up with any player that shoots even par games?
  Casting a catch all or nothing net may not always answer a question that looks easy to answer. Does the level of a player really give a good look at how they play? no - because level does not give a good snap shot of how well they can stop the swing meter, which will affect every single shot. Stop it early you push the shot or Hook it / stop it late and you pull the shot or Slice it. With a player like my self and those that I play with all the time, it is the meter that we burn our selves with, not do we know how to shoot a shot. Basing all clubs and gear off level alone won't stop it, if a person can control the meter they will get great results no matter the gear. But if you throw the catch all or nothing net, what happens to those players who use the gear to help get the game closer to something more playable? Every shot I hit comes 1 of 2 ways pulled or pushed even my putts, it makes no difference what clubs or balls I am using.

  Faster meter clubs or slower meter clubs I will still burn myself with the meter. Go to a single tee box will that solve the problem? Maybe then again maybe not, has level based gear helped, not me it has not. Because I still can't control the meter which controls where the ball will go, by missing the center I lose power of the club which makes me lose the distance the club did have before I hit a crappy shot. A 195 yard club hit off center by half the forgiveness area of meter will make club come up short by 5 or more yards. I just club up an extra club to gain some distance because I know I will miss hit it and leave shot short, or i screw it up and stop it closer to center and get extra distance and long it goes.

  I don't care what level a player is I look only at score average to see what will happen before the first ball is ever hit.

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Wed, Oct 19 2011 11:46 AM

  FuzzyBallz:

  Go to a single tee box will that solve the problem? Maybe then again maybe not, has level based gear helped, not me it has not.

  How often do you play credit tournaments such as MPCs, open RGs, premium open tournaments... I'm not counting chump change unlimiteds or CC tournaments.

  Mainly this:  In MPCs, in open RGs, in open Premium tournaments like the premium weekly multirounds, have uniform tee boxes.  I couldn't care less really if I get hit in alt shot, though I understand it affects other that play leagues, and I don't care if I get outhit in friendly matches or stroke rounds.  And the prize money for free weekly unlimiteds and singles is meager, in order for a sand-bagger to make anything they'd end up tiering by osmosis.  but in those three listed cases, there absolutely needs to be uniform tees.

  And Fuzzy, I understand your point.  Why should you, who aren't good enough even with the best equipment, be penalized?  Do you understand mine?  Just because I am good enough to be a Legend and shoot low numbers, why am I penalized?

• FuzzyBallz 179 Posts

  Wed, Oct 19 2011 12:11 PM

  Nope I don't play any type of play for money - I know how crappy I play and most hacks could probable beat me any given day.

  I play to see if I can shoot a par 3 in less then 4 - hehehe. Par 5 is my best chance at a Par.

  Which is why I say what I have said before, and I still stick with it, go to any golf course sign up for the Golf Tourneys when they have them and see everybody is hitting from which tee box? The same Tee Box either Men's or Pro's, there will not be players shooting from all 4 Tee Boxes, they all shoot from the exact same tee box for tourney play.

  It is a simple and easy fix - you want to play for credits in a tourney for prizes of credits or gears everybody shoots from the exact same Tee Box. If I was to join and play in tourney style play that is what I would expect, even if I was lvl 45 with the best gear I good get I would be playing the best players from the exact same tee boxes. Any tourney I have helped with that is the way it was any tourney play I have watch be it from the club house or TV everybody is hitting from the exact same Tee Box. Also on greens that is like putting on polished glass ................. !!!!!!! Let them put their money where their mouth is.

• Oldstir 434 Posts

  Thu, Oct 20 2011 8:48 PM

  This concerns many members I'm sure and I don't know if it is True or not but during a round one time; there was Chat going on.  Someone was explaining that members who joined WGT the earliest years ago; they didn't have to Progress by levels to earn the right to buy better equipment and they could just buy any Equipment they wanted no matter what tier they were.  Which would explain why we see Legends who are only at level 40 and so forth.

  If this is the case, then it is absolutely UNFAIR to other members and WGT should make some major changes to Even The Playing Field if you will?  And that's why I won't play with those types of members because some guy a level 32 for example, already has the R11 Driver but the rest of "us" have to wait until we reach Level 88.  So those people will beat you Every Time simply because they will out-drive you by 50 or 75 yards all the time.

  Then when you won't play Them, they post hate rhetoric on your Wall and call you a coward and everything else under the sun.  I even had a possible Death Threat posted on my Wall just because I declined to play someone!

  So I filed a Police Report and requested to speak with WGT Owner Chad Nelson but they would not allow me to.  They wouldn't even return my phone calls.

  What kind of Customer Relations Policy is that?  Why doesn't Mr. Nelson take responsibility for his Company and demonstrate more consideration for his Paying Customers?  This neglect has truly gone beyond the ridiculous.  Nobody from WGT offered an apology for that death threat and all they do is tell you to keep quiet and do not contact the Abuser.  Which doesn't resolve anything and the abuser just continues to post more insults on your wall anyway. :)

  So call me stupid or a coward or anything you want but this is Not a Professional Way to run a Corporation or Company in my opinion. 

  I do however think the Game is fantastic and I congratulate Chad and his Partner for creating such an enjoyable form of online gaming.  It simply needs new Rules, New People who know how to properly represent the Owners and deal with Abusers correctly.  But the Owners also need to Speak openly to Their Customers and pay more attention to the Thousands of complaints which are 'repeatedly' being voiced by members.  But also, the Owners need to be accessible and be willing to actually talk personally with members, especially when there are Very Serious Issues raised such as DEATH THREATS made against people as well as extremely Vulgar Hate-mongering remarks being posted on a Customer's Wall and during play.

  Indeed, I think WGT should dispose of the Wall Posting Feature completely which would practically eliminate All hate rhetoric.  Instead, like most Forums, they should just have Private Messaging for each member Plus also allow members to Block anyone from contacting them.  That is the Real Solution to the problem.  Then they wouldn't need so much Staff wasting time tracking down the hundreds of hate postings and concentrate more on improving the Technical problems with the game and maintaining better and more friendly relations with their Customers; don't ya think?

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Thu, Oct 20 2011 10:57 PM

  Oldstir:

  And that's why I won't play with those types of members because some guy a level 32 for example, already has the R11 Driver but the rest of "us" have to wait until we reach Level 88. 

  The R11 didn't exist back then.  When it was released, it required L88.  No one below L88 has one.

• JaLaBar 1,254 Posts

  Thu, Oct 20 2011 11:02 PM

  FuzzyBallz:

  Also on greens that is like putting on polished glass ................. !!!!!!! Let them put their money where their mouth is.

  Play a round at Oakmont with a Legend... you'll learn the meaning of polished glass.

  "You could hit 72 GiR at Oakmont and not come close to winning."

  A. Palmer

• TotteSwede 512 Posts

  Fri, Oct 21 2011 3:24 AM

  JaLaBar:

  there is absolutely no benefit to tiering, or to making Legend at all.  

  This is the key issue with the current system. Tiering is a penalty for being good, you get absolutely nothing positive out of it (no, Legend balls aren't much of an upgrade). Personally I hit every new tier long before I could use the "appropriate" clubs for the tier, so I have seen the flipside of the coin firsthand :)

  There are two facts that will never change in WGT:
  1) WGT wants as many participants as possible in premium tourneys/matches
  2) WGT wants to sell as many clubs as possible

  If you equalize tee boxes as suggested previously in this thread, only the very best players will participate when credits are on the line, hence lowering WGTs revenue. This just won't happen.
  You have to realize that the majority of hilvl, lower-tier players are not sandbaggers but in fact just less good players.
  In real golf you have a handicap system that allows these players to get strokes on holes to make up for it. In WGT that handicap is shooting from shorter tees and/or getting better equipment.

  In the "big" tourneys like The Open it is logic to give everyone the same prereqs as you are truly looking for the "best player". Not so in general RGs or similar.

  That being said they really need to add benefits to new tiers instead of just penalties. Be it better versions of existing clubs or totally new tier-specific clubs.

  Oh, I don't really care about sandbaggers as I don't play MPCs or RGs. If I meet one in a random altshot I just laugh at them, kick their ass and move on with a smile on my face :)

• Oldstir 434 Posts

  Fri, Oct 21 2011 7:22 AM

  "No one below L88 has one."

  Sorry but you're mistaken and it makes no difference when the R11 came out but I've played against lower than level 88 members using the R11.  FACT! :)  I do agree the current tiers/levels system is flawed.  Handicapping should be based on Driver Strength, not a tier or level.  Period. :)

  That's why you always see members at level 88 and higher preying on the lower levels during Searches because they just want a Sure Win knowing they can out-drive their opponent all the time.  Well Whoopie for "them" and that's why I don't play them.  Only a fool loves to get slaughtered by an over-matched opponent IMO.  And I won't play those dozens of predators who have tried to prey on me EVEN if I do match their Driver strength because "they" have [no sense of fair play] and especially those who have posted hate rhetoric on my wall just because you won't play them. :)

  But you're right; the bottom line is WGT making Money which is their prerogative too. :)

• Fuzzygazz 1,469 Posts

  Fri, Oct 21 2011 7:23 AM

  15 pages of posts and nothing from WGT? What does that tell you? They dont hear us. How bout addressing the issue? Fuzzygazz

• cubncp 36 Posts

  Fri, Oct 21 2011 7:38 AM

  why not present the idea.. of gear score.. basically assign a gear score to each item the player has in his bag..then take an average of his or her gear score and either set up automatic match making to have players with the relative same gear competing against each other. or at least have gear score identifier so the player about to get into the match play game can see that his oppent has way better gear and shouldnt even gamble.. oo yeah ur gambling its a gamble ,like it or not u did press ok for the match.so tough it out lossur dollar like a pro and rember who the shark was.. make a list of the super baggers and keep us posted!