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sandbagging out of control

Mon, Oct 24 2011 4:39 AM (168 replies)
  • PotAndKettle
    1 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2011 11:11 PM

    not true jalabar, winter fall tourney is giving away L88 R11 driver to all tiers irespectiv of level.  then theirs guys like one who reported in bug log about someone beating him in 500cr premium but he is a L89 tour pro himself and only play in premium tourns

  • Jerm65
    1,413 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2011 2:01 AM

    Doc, I agree with you...it's not at all fair.  And I've encountered that very same situation, which is why I normally won't play lower-tiered players in Alt or Match unless I know them.

    And to be honest, I also agree with your solution.  In theory, anyway.  Alt-shot and Match-play should both count towards a player advancing in tiers.  I won't dispute that.

    Logistically though?  Incorporating it gets real messy, real fast.  And I don't really see a easy fix for that.  I can see some really complex ones...but nothing simple enough for WGT to be interested in using.

    I'm all ears if you've got one.....

  • FlyinDoc
    201 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2011 2:06 AM

    MBaggese:

    FlyinDoc:
    The solution? Include Match Play and Alt Shot stats in the algorithm for promotion,

     

    Agreed,

     

    Now quit beating me in MPC!!!

     

    : )

     

    P.S. Any chance somebody from WGT will respond to this suggestion?

     

  • FlyinDoc
    201 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2011 2:11 AM

    Jerm65:

    Logistically though?  Incorporating it gets real messy, real fast.  And I don't really see a easy fix for that.  I can see some really complex ones...but nothing simple enough for WGT to be interested in using.

    I'm all ears if you've got one.....

     

    All game play is nothing but a complex algorithm the programmers write as code. The current criterion for advancement of Tiers is also an algorithm based on the number of Ranked Rounds in a Tier and your average after you cross that number. How difficult do you think it is for them to come up with an algorithm to include improving Alt. Shot and Match Play statistics into this equation?

  • Jerm65
    1,413 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2011 12:47 PM

    That's the problem Doc....I see it as being extremely difficult to come up with something that's equitable or fair, yet basic enough to be actually implemented by WGT.

    The current criteria for tier-advancement is an extremely simple, linear equation, and is based solely on the scores of your completed ranked rounds.  The problem is that Alt and Match don't give you comparable scores to use.  Granted, in Match you may end up with a score for the round, but there's certainly no guarantee on that, and that score can be easily manipulated.

    In the absence of comparable scores to work with, you need to determine how to include a non-linear item.....

    FlyinDoc:
    improving Alt. Shot and Match Play statistics

    .....into the linear equation for tiering up. (this is where it gets ugly...lol)

    The simple answer might be number of wins, or something similar.  However that can also be easily manipulated, (either by you or your opponents).

    The best I've been able to come up with is to somehow "rate" each shot a player hits in ranked play (Alt, Match and Stroke), and give it a raw score.  That would effectively transform your Alt and Match and Stroke play into equivalent linear numbers.  You can then use those numbers in a slightly revised, (yet still very basic), tiering-up formula.

    That sounds easy enough in principle, but the "rating" of a shot is a very complex process to me.  It would involve a massive amount of subjective variables that all have to be considered and weighted (subjective being the operative word).  For instance, course management alone could pose significant problems in determining the "quality" of a given shot.  Real messy, real fast.  (and it sounded so good!  lol)

    Again, I'd love to see the loophole closed, and have Alt and Match included in the tiering process.  I just think it also has to be very easy for WGT to implement in order for it to actually happen.  And unfortunately, easy to implement seems to equal easy to manipulate.  So far, at least....

  • golfentwilly
    158 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2011 1:08 PM

    Imop..thats why they come up with this new way of tiering up.To make the sand baggers stand out more

  • 3puttsSuk
    361 Posts
    Sun, Oct 23 2011 7:27 PM

    JuanMendoza:

    I ain't crying...

    Average don't mean so much in MP, every shot matters. Even second-account sandbaggers gotta putt, and they're in MY house...

     

    Green Speeds of each Match are based on the Higher Tiered Player

    Advantage goes to the HTP...putt for dough

    Everyone plays from their respective tee box

    Advantage goes to the HI Level Lower Tier Player

     

    Obviously the two don't offset each other (based on reading)

    Obviously tier based equipment is a thing of the past.

    Doing well in Stroke Play Tourneys will advance all (most) players

    Those that dont play Stroke Tourneys... obvious once again.

     

    How about Match Play events be based on equipment ( i remember reading about 'gear rank' back a while )  If you've got the big boy toys, then you should play with the big boys.

    Par 3's  set defaults on which clubs can be used.  Par 4 & 5s which Drivers.

    I previously posted about changing forgiveness/precision on Hi level clubs used by Lower Tier players but agreed it'd be a programming nightmare.  But to cap a teebox so that a HI level club cant be used off a shorter teebox...might even things out.  Much more than the change in green speeds.

     

     

  • ForrestLeigh
    264 Posts
    Mon, Oct 24 2011 2:11 AM

    The current system (Ranked) works on averages - if you ignore the tiers *names* what really happens is when you reach a certain average your tee to pin distance increases.

    Why can't that work with non-ranked tournaments also, so when a pro with a 70 average gets good enough from his current tee to be shooting a *example* 65 average he goes back a tee.  They can still buy the *best* equipment but stay at pro if they want to. 

    If they aren't good enough from their current tee they won't increase distance anyway whatever level they are, and only when they are good enough they go back a tee, but stay in their tier as its not a ranked event change

    This way you'd know if you were playing a tour pro with a 58 average they would be off the champ tees

    I think the emphasis should be on 'good enough' - whatever you like to play (ranked, not ranked) when you get 'good enough' then you move on - or actually back

  • vespa1965
    212 Posts
    Mon, Oct 24 2011 4:39 AM

    PotAndKettle:

    not true jalabar, winter fall tourney is giving away L88 R11 driver to all tiers irespectiv of level.  then theirs guys like one who reported in bug log about someone beating him in 500cr premium but he is a L89 tour pro himself and only play in premium tourns

     

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