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% putts made from 25 - 50ft stats?

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 2:11 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  DodgyPutter:

  The one putt % is 11.11 so now we know 2 first putts were made, I think that rules out first putts being what is counted with the immediately apparent reason being there couldn't be two different %'s above. (as if the two putts were holed at different distances the  %'s would be the same)

   

  I don't get this part (perhaps i am tired...)

  He did in total 46 putts and the one putt % is 11,11%. So, 46 x 11,11% = 5,11. Therefore he holed at first attempt 5,11 putts. How did you come up with number 2?

   

  The number 2 came from his one putt percentage (11.11%). He has only played 18 holes (so has that many successful putts) 11.11% of 18 is 2.  That means 2 of his successful putts were his first putt on that hole. 

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 2:38 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  Yiannis1970:

  Just think the remote case of a newbie who has a 9 hole round and has holed in first attempt: 4 4-footers, 2 12footers, 2 27 footers and 1 60 footer. Look now the stats:

   

  0-5 = 100%

  5-10 = 0%

  10-25 = 100%

  25-50 = 100%

  50+ = 100%

   

  Total putts: 9

   

   

   

  DodgyPutter, i would like your comment in the above scenario.

   

  Yiannis in that case, because there are no missed putts, they would all add up to 100%.

  0-5 = 4/9 44%

  5-10 = 0%

  10-25 = 2/9 22%

  25-50 = 2/9 22%

  50+ = 1/9 11%

  Or as it turns out 99% :-)

  If they missed the ones from 27ft, hit it to 2ft and holed those things get more complicated.  If you putt on all the greens you always have 9 or18 successful putts,  in this case you now have 6 from 0-5ft.  As wgt divide the successful putts at each distance by the total number of putts the denominator is now 11.

  So you now have the sort of thing we see on our stats (not adding up to 100%).

  0-5 = 6/11  55%

  5-10 = 0%

  10-25 = 2/11 18%

  25-50 = 0%

  50+ = 1/11  9%

  What wgt don't show that would have made all this more obvious is 

  Missed putts 2/11 18%

  As then this section would add up to 100%

  (sorry p3 was page 3, a bit lazy)

• Yiannis1970 3,284 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 4:40 AM

  DodgyPutter, couple of observations:

  Earlier you said that the reference for calculations on putting for WGT is number 18. In the above scenario though you take as a reference the number 9 (9 hole round). If WGT takes in account the holes played, system of % becomes very very very complicated. 

   

  0-5 = 4/9 44%

  5-10 = 0%

  10-25 = 2/9 22%

  25-50 = 2/9 22%

  50+ = 1/9 11%

   

  This is not quite correct. While in our cases (i mean yours and mine) if we add successful + missed putts (in %) we come up with our final 100% and the board represent our total putting ability, in the above description is not happening. The player has a total of 9 successful putts (1st try). It's true if we add the percentages we get 100% but it's wrong the way you display it cause you show he missed many putts while he didn't. 

   

  As wgt divide the successful putts at each distance by the total number of putts the denominator is now 11.

   

  Totally confused emoticon!!!

• Yiannis1970 3,284 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 5:01 AM

  DodgyPutter:

  Yiannis1970:

  DodgyPutter:

  The one putt % is 11.11 so now we know 2 first putts were made, I think that rules out first putts being what is counted with the immediately apparent reason being there couldn't be two different %'s above. (as if the two putts were holed at different distances the  %'s would be the same)

   

  I don't get this part (perhaps i am tired...)

  He did in total 46 putts and the one putt % is 11,11%. So, 46 x 11,11% = 5,11. Therefore he holed at first attempt 5,11 putts. How did you come up with number 2?

   

  The number 2 came from his one putt percentage (11.11%). He has only played 18 holes (so has that many successful putts) 11.11% of 18 is 2.  That means 2 of his successful putts were his first putt on that hole. 

  Objection here:

  In the 1st putting percentage we don't take as a reference how many holes he played but how many first putts he made. So, if his total number of putts is 46, then 46 x 11,11% = 5,11. If for instance, i have a round where i have 5 hole outs, 5 successful putts from the fringe (which do not count as putts), 4 1st try putts from 0-5 and other 4 from 5-10, my total number of putts is 8  not 18....so the percentage should be:

  1st putts = 100%

  2nd putts = 0

  more putts = 0

   

  and the other board should be:

   

  0-5 = 100%

  5-10 = 100% 

  and the rest 0%.

   

  In this way we display correctly that the player had all his putts sunk in the first attempt and his distances are correct too. Now...in any case, from these stats, we can't be saying how many putts he holed from 0-5 distance and how many from 5-10. We only know he's 100% successful on every 1st putt attempt. 

   

• Yiannis1970 3,284 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 5:05 AM

  HamdenPro:

  You ever notice, the longer a thread gets, the more wrong it gets?

  If a newbie holes all 9 greens in one putts, then they would all add up to 100%.

  I guess if, we all make new accounts, and for now on, we make every putt, on every hole (all one putts), so it will equal 100%, it will be easier to agree with the stats...just sayin' IMHO

  The key is, not to miss any putts. If we do, then it will no longer equal 100% and we will have to start another thread to figure out why.

   

  That's what i posted before. However...

  If a newbie holes all 9 greens in one putts, then they would all add up to 100%.

  If we proceed to add his percentages till we get 100% (as DogdyPutter did in his example), then the outcome does not correspond to his putting ability.

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 8:52 AM

  Yiannis1970:

  DodgyPutter, couple of observations:

  Earlier you said that the reference for calculations on putting for WGT is number 18. In the above scenario though you take as a reference the number 9 (9 hole round). If WGT takes in account the holes played, system of % becomes very very very complicated. 

  Yiannis the main problem is believing it's the first putt that counts, it's not it's the successful or last putt.  Earlier I talked about 18 as it was an 18 hole round (so there were 18 successful putts) in your example there were 9 holes. 

  Yiannis1970:

  This is not quite correct. While in our cases (i mean yours and mine) if we add successful + missed putts (in %) we come up with our final 100% and the board represent our total putting ability

  These numbers don't reflect our putting ability at least not in the way you mean. 

  What yours mean is (and all the numbers I'm giving here are approximate) :

  Putts holed from

  0-5ft 23,083

  5-10ft 10,826

  10ft-25ft   5,484

  10-25ft 548            

  25ft-50ft  30

  And therefor Missed putts 10,572

  What it doesn't tell us what distance the missed putts were from.  The percentage given is only showing you where your holed putts are from.   

  If all of your missed putts were from 5-10ft (I know they're not) then your success rate from that distance would be around 69% as it's more likely longer putts you're missing it would probably be in the mid-upper 90's.  That was just to illustrate how ridiculous it would be to think of these as top players success rates.

  Sorry forgot this 

  Yiannis1970:

  As wgt divide the successful putts at each distance by the total number of putts the denominator is now 11.

  In your example he holed all 9 so there were 9 successful putts and 9 putts. In mine he missed two so there were still 9 successful putts  but now 11 putts.  As wgt divide the successful putts at each distance by the total number of putts the denominator is now 11.

  so six successful at 0-5ft = 6/11 55% etc.

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

• Yiannis1970 3,284 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 10:20 AM

  Thanks for your answer but that does not make sense at all to me. Now, i am even more confused, so i leave it here. I still believe the best way to figure out how this whole thing is working, is to monitor the results of a player who starts in order to have available all the data.

• Cicero733 2,307 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 10:35 AM

  Just an observation/comment. Statistics are a measurement tool; they compare something measurable to a standard. In this case they measure every players’ putting stats to a scale from 0 - 100 with the assumption being the higher the percentage rating, the better putter a player is. Regardless of how the numbers are derived, provided they are derived in the same manner for all players, the number does nothing more than assign a rating to a player’s putting. You change the method of derivation, but it will still be compared to the same standard scale. I believe all WGT is demonstrating is where a player ranks among other players. A player with a 49% rating is “statistically better” than a player with a 32% ranking. A player who achieves a rating of 71% one putts performs better than player who achieves a rating of 57%. I believe that’s all we can take away from comparing the statistics as they are currently presented.

• HamdenPro 2,468 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 10:43 AM

  Cicero733:

  Just an observation/comment

   

  There is 64% probability that you are correct. Compared to your ranking among other players who have expressed an opinion.

  Not bad, considering..  I have a 92%

• Robert1893 7,712 Posts

  Sun, Dec 26 2021 11:14 AM

  Cicero733:

  Just an observation/comment. Statistics are a measurement tool; they compare something measurable to a standard. In this case they measure every players’ putting stats to a scale from 0 - 100 with the assumption being the higher the percentage rating, the better putter a player is. Regardless of how the numbers are derived, provided they are derived in the same manner for all players, the number does nothing more than assign a rating to a player’s putting. You change the method of derivation, but it will still be compared to the same standard scale. I believe all WGT is demonstrating is where a player ranks among other players. A player with a 49% rating is “statistically better” than a player with a 32% ranking. A player who achieves a rating of 71% one putts performs better than player who achieves a rating of 57%. I believe that’s all we can take away from comparing the statistics as they are currently presented.

  While that's true for the 1-putt, 2-putt, and 3-putt or more percentages, it's not necessarily true for the "% from X feet" numbers. With those percents the comparisons are not as straightforward. 

  For example, within that category. if a player has 48% of putts in the 0 to 5 feet category that is not necessarily a "better" percent that those who have a 45% for the same category. The same holds true at the other end of the scale (for example, the 25-50 feet number that started this thread).  

  In fact, I looked at one of the better putters in the country club I'm a member. This player has a 1-putt percent over 72%. My 1-putt percent is < 50%. My percent for 0-5 feet is 48.07%.That player's percent is 45.88%. I would not draw any conclusions based on those numbers. 

  In those categories, the more important numbers are probably 5-10 feet and 10-15 feet. On those metrics, the differences between me and the other player are quite stark. 

  5 - 10 Feet: 

  • Me: 11.64%
  • Other player: 21.73%

  10 -25 Feet: 

  • Me: 5.99%
  • Him: 10.49%

  In my example, the other player is sinking a lot more putts from 5 to 25 feet, which means the player doesn't face as many 0-5 feet putts as I do.
  
  My understanding of the numbers has always been this explanation provided by AnaNikola on the top of page 3:

  AnaNikolaj:

  Easy explanation. In short, the putts made stat refers to the % of the total putts you took. Let's say I took 1000 putts (made and missed combined) and holed 600 of them, with 400 of them being from 0 - 5 feet, 150 of them from 5 - 15 feet, 40  from 15 - 25 feet and 10 from 25 - 50 feet. My stats would've shown as my success rate:

  - 0-5 feet : 40%

  - 5 - 15 feet: 15%

  - 15 - 25 feet: 4%

  - 25 - 50 feet: 1%

  When you add this all up, it means I've holed 60% percent of my putts, which would give me a putting avg of somewhere over 1,5 putts per hole (really not bothered to do the math). 

  I realise this doesn't sound like a logical way to do stats, but I really believe that's how they do it. As in real life, when sane theories don't match the numbers, try an insane one... ;-)