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Access to equipment should be based on tiers not levels

Sun, Oct 1 2023 9:38 AM (17 replies)
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  • MisterT99
    13 Posts
    Thu, Sep 14 2023 10:29 AM

    Currently, access to top equipment is based on levels. In my opinion it should be based on tiers, instead! That would also avoid the sandbagging that is clearly so common.

    I became aware of this recently when I reached the Legend tier by level 77. Now I play against players who are Tour Pro, Masters or Tour Masters who tee off closer to the hole than I do and, because they are level 95+ or even 100+ (I met a Tour Pro level 120+), have equipment far better than mine. That does not seem correct to me.

    To gain levels all it takes is to play a lot. To move up a tier one has to accomplish certain results. The game should reward quality over quantity. If the plan is just to have players spend as much as possible, then please say so openly and let the players decide if they want to play or not.

    I do believe the current access to equipment is wrong and unfair. For instance what can a player who achieve a high tier fast do until he/she can buy the right clubs to compete on the new and more challenging courses setups.

     

  • alosso
    21,072 Posts
    Thu, Sep 14 2023 12:04 PM

    MisterT99:
    Currently, access to top equipment is based on levels. In my opinion it should be based on tiers, instead!

    It has been like that a long time ago, until Summer 2010. WGT then made a decision for a change, and I deem it unlikely that they may change their opinion.

    You have to see it through their lens - what is best for them?

  • BlackBogey
    531 Posts
    Thu, Sep 14 2023 1:16 PM

    MisterT99:

    Currently, access to top equipment is based on levels. In my opinion it should be based on tiers, instead! That would also avoid the sandbagging that is clearly so common.

    I became aware of this recently when I reached the Legend tier by level 77. Now I play against players who are Tour Pro, Masters or Tour Masters who tee off closer to the hole than I do and, because they are level 95+ or even 100+ (I met a Tour Pro level 120+), have equipment far better than mine. That does not seem correct to me.

    To gain levels all it takes is to play a lot. To move up a tier one has to accomplish certain results. The game should reward quality over quantity. If the plan is just to have players spend as much as possible, then please say so openly and let the players decide if they want to play or not.

    I do believe the current access to equipment is wrong and unfair. For instance what can a player who achieve a high tier fast do until he/she can buy the right clubs to compete on the new and more challenging courses setups.

     

    I see you've been moaning about this in several threads, and even posted a blog about it on your profile.  But after a quick glance at your score history, you were obviously on mission to Tier up as fast as possible by only playing 9 hole rounds on the easiest courses, so you kind of got exactly what you asked for, no?  

    Perhaps if you played some other/more difficult courses and played a full 18 from time to time you wouldn't have Tiered up too quickly and would've Leveled up as you progressed (and learned your way around, possibly the best places to leave yourself on the holes you can't reach in regulation).  You can't just play the same driver/short iron courses like St A, PGA and Kiawah OVER AND OVER AND OVER and hope to get better.  Sure, your avg will drop and get you below what you need to progress to next Tier, but then you can't come here belly-aching and moaning about being moved up in tier before you have reached what you deem the proper equipment.

    On the bright side, Leveling up still comes around somewhat quickly until L90.  Just wait until you get into the mid/upper 90 Levels and see what a grind that is to move up a Level.

  • MisterT99
    13 Posts
    Thu, Sep 14 2023 3:05 PM

    Actually, I played several other courses too. I got my 30 at Bethpage Black, Pinehurst  and maybe they do not show anymore but also at Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach, Wolf Creek.  It is just that if the score is not useful for the cause (say I am on to a 32 or even 31 if I am having a bad day)  I stop my games. Why wasting expensive balls?

    Or why play the most difficult courses where I did not stand any chance to reach all greens in regulation? That would be silly.

    I guess I will quit the game. There are other games and things to do. I will go back to play Links 2003 which may be graphically less pleasing perhaps, but is much more realistic when it comes to the Physics of ball movement and where there is no equipment to buy or magic balls.  And also a huge amount of courses to play.

     

    Thank you for your reply. Quitting this game is the right thing to do for me. No need to waste my time for another 2 months with no hope to go anywhere.

     

     

  • BlackBogey
    531 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 5:31 AM

    MisterT99:

    Actually, I played several other courses too. I got my 30 at Bethpage Black, Pinehurst  and maybe they do not show anymore but also at Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach, Wolf Creek.  It is just that if the score is not useful for the cause (say I am on to a 32 or even 31 if I am having a bad day)  I stop my games. Why wasting expensive balls?

    Or why play the most difficult courses where I did not stand any chance to reach all greens in regulation? That would be silly.

    I guess I will quit the game. There are other games and things to do. I will go back to play Links 2003 which may be graphically less pleasing perhaps, but is much more realistic when it comes to the Physics of ball movement and where there is no equipment to buy or magic balls.  And also a huge amount of courses to play.

    Thank you for your reply. Quitting this game is the right thing to do for me. No need to waste my time for another 2 months with no hope to go anywhere.

    Sorry to see you go, the intention of my reply was not to be rude or drive you away.  But you kind of proved my point - you were only interested in posting only the low scores that would allow you to drop your avg. and Tier up faster than normal.  And you should've known that along with those higher Tiers would come longer tees, higher winds and faster greens that would be more difficult to navigate with "inferior" clubs/balls.  (btw, you have very good clubs for your Level already that should allow you to post decent scores at Legend Tier). 

    All those games that you quit if you were going to post a 31/32 or higher would've served you 2 purposes: 1) gaining more XP that would help you Level up faster, and 2) gaining more experience on how to play different types of shots from various lies/distances/winds. 

    If "wasting expensive ball hits" is a concern perhaps you could seek out a more affordable ball?  The L34 Callaway is a good ball that might help with the pocketbook (costs 200 credits less than the L52 Bridgestone Vapor ball you last bought and has higher durability so you get more bang for the buck) and also help a little with the lack of distance to reach the longer holes in regulation (better overall distance than the L52, plus better distance to spin ratio so should go a little farther just on that spec).  It's your money to spend how you see fit, and maybe you just really need the 6 meter speed of the Bridgestone?  But even then you could save 50 credits/sleeve with the standard L52 over the (useless) Vapor Trail L52.

    Lastly, I didn't mean that you only ever played the "easiest" courses, just that appears to be where the majority of your rounds that are visible were played right before Tiering up.  As to why bother playing the more difficult courses - if your only goal is to see what Tier you can achieve then I guess I somewhat agree with your strategy.  But if your goal is to become a well-rounded good player that can "compete" (shoot "decent" scores on any course), then that experience is invaluable.

    As I said in previous post, the Levels will continue to advance rather quickly until you reach around L89/90/91, just make sure to keep your CDP active and play a few rounds/day in some of the higher XP payout formats (the free weekly/monthly WGT tournaments and Practice mode 3 hole Skins with 4 players give the most bang for the buck).  At L92 they do start to become a grind.

    Maybe you are already gone and I typed all this for nothing, but even if so maybe it can help someone else in the same situation.

    **edit** If you are still around, one more piece of unsolicited advice - seek out a CC with more than 2 active members.  There are many active/friendly CC out there with members willing to give free advice, and it will be easier to find multiplayer rounds that also yield more XP than solo play rounds.

  • MisterT99
    13 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 1:57 PM

    My clubs are fine. I maxed them out to the best of my abilities in recent days (I played only 4 months, January to March 2023, August to September 2023).  I have already scoree a few decent ones (and that was with the standard balls!). The problems come up when I have par 4 of nearly 550 yards and par 6 of 620+ yards and, on top of that,  there is also a headwind.  When after 2 shots, and with the clubs I have, I am still nearly 100 yards from the green, I see little purpose to play.

    Also, there are other reasons to choose the courses I do as opposed to others: I have a profound dislike for links courses. I like courses with water, doglegs, trees, etc, but links not so much. The strange thing is Kiawah which I used to like it on Links 2003, but here it is frankly trash. In particular the views are completely inadequate for shooting on several occasions. On Links 2003 playing with PGA speed greens, those greens are a nightmare (that would be speed 13-14). Only course I really enjoy here is Pebble Beach, that is a course I never tire to play, although I think that hole No. 7 plays wrong. I do not live too far from Pebble Beach and I have been there... Of course, while the game is realistic lookwise, the Physics is not (and it could not be otherwise, or else people would not shoot 55 or even below 50!! That immediately tells everything there is to say: it is an arcade game with great views).

    Joining the CC. Perhaps, but I do not want to play tamed courses set up to lower averages either. A lot of people who shoot in their mid to high 50's do not get the majority of their scores on the regular courses. And I was told that much by a Tour Champion whom I played and beat once in one of those Chelsea games (I used a couple of those to warm up before playing on the courses).

    Thankfully I can afford to buy the balls I want as often as I want, but I do not like "magic balls" that stops on a dime even if I hit with a 3 iron. That is not realistic. However, I do hate to waste good balls for nothing: just because I am lucky to be able to afford the balls, it does not seem right to me to be wasteful.

    I stand by my opinion that equipment should be by tiers and not by levels. Of course, economically it is much better for Topgolf to have it by levels, I get it, but it is bizarre or even comedic that I face a Tour Pro at level 100+ who starts 50-100 yards in front of me and, on top of that, has the best clubs that money can buy.  Why should that player be rewarded for playing at a mediocre level and very likely even doing everything not to move up any tier to stay with the easy setup? With those clubs, he might probably overshoot the greens from time to time! 

    I just cannot wait 2-3 months to reach the levels to buy the 95-100+ clubs that are going to be the definitive ones.

    Right now my wood is shitty... as it carries little distance.. And I cannot always approach the greens with 3 or 4 irons. Those let the balls roll too much and if, on top of the distance, the green is also sloped near the flag, I am done!  I was having a great game on Erin (at -4)  then disaster started to happen. It is not that I missed my shots, but either balls never stopped until the fringes (true, I was with the standard balls) or I could not carry enough distance to use my wedges (which are definitely quite good)  and that cost me 2 shots that ruined my game. Not so much for the score, but because of the horrible way the balls reacted on the greens.

    Finally, Topgolf should know that even USGA strongly recommends to put all pins in playable positions and putting a pin near a sloped section is not a good thing. 2 inches longer than it should and the ball will roll to the fringe. Also there should be a little flat area around the pin but at times putting from 2 feet is more cause of concern than putting from 10 because of the horrible pin setup that Topgolf used.

    It is just a game, I know, still.. if I take my time to play it, I like to get the most out of it and enjoy myself and for me is shooting well and not seeing balls performing monkey businesses. I also wonder if some of the distances in the courses I am seeing right now are really PGA like. Frankly, I have my doubts.  Torrey Pines is another course that I know very well.  The problem there in real life is always to stop the balls on greens as they run and run and run... But in this game on Torrey's par 5s I am often 50-80 yards from the green after 2 shots. Mmmhh.. maybe.. Perhaps if I had the top drivere and 3W to squeeze extra yardage out of the shots...

    Oakmont greens are not even close to the real deal. No greens are more nightmarish than Oakmont's. The PGA players are happy when they make par. Here, I myself played the first half in 30 shots once! Imaginary.  Too bad Augusta is not available!  Those greens are less hostile than Oakmont's in terms of unevenness, but they are so fast that if feels like putting on ice.

    Maybe I will come back in a few months. But I doubt it. It was some fun for a while.

     

  • callaghan159
    6,359 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 2:09 PM

    MisterT99:

    Quitting this game is the right thing to do for me. No need to waste my time for another 2 months with no hope to go anywhere.

     

    but yet you play today

  • ct690911
    7,205 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 2:43 PM

    callaghan159:

    MisterT99:

    Quitting this game is the right thing to do for me. No need to waste my time for another 2 months with no hope to go anywhere.

    but yet you play today

    It seems the vast majority of players who announce in the forum (usually with great fanfare) that they are quitting.... never do.

    The folks that are serious about quitting simply don't play anymore. No posts, no whining, no BS.

    sayin'

     

  • GreenLaser
    227 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 3:32 PM

    BlackBogey:

    As I said in previous post, the Levels will continue to advance rather quickly until you reach around L89/90/91, just make sure to keep your CDP active and play a few rounds/day in some of the higher XP payout formats (the free weekly/monthly WGT tournaments and Practice mode 3 hole Skins with 4 players give the most bang for the buck).  At L92 they do start to become a grind.

    I was really focused on gaining levels up until L97. I don't know how it compares with the other methods but I advanced levels at a pretty good rate by playing mostly (almost exclusively for quite some time) 1 hole coin games then clicking on the extra XP ad after the game.  You don't get much XP for the game but the ads sometime pay off a lot.  I think I've gotten as much as 190 XP for an ad, usually quite a bit less than that but often pretty good XP. Consecutive day bonus helped tremendously. Apparel with XP bonus helped a bit, too.

     I did less of the 1 hole coin game method after I reached maybe the mid-80's, but it was still my main way of trying to gain levels. I started keeping track of how long it takes me to advance when I reached the mid-80's. I think you hit it about right with L92 being where the real grind sets in. L92--->L93 was the first one that took me a month to accomplish.

     

  • MisterT99
    13 Posts
    Fri, Sep 15 2023 7:10 PM

    @ct690911   Of all the things I wrote, that is the only one that resonated with you. Interesting. I think it says a lot

     

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