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How the new average is computed for legend

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 10:29 AM

  jvr86:

  yeah, too bad lol, I worked too had to be in your legend list... and last month finally I was close #100-130 with a 57,79... not inside top 100 but I was a month close...

  We will perhaps still be both legend by the end of this month. I don't know about you, but I am not yet sure I will have played 100 rounds before the end of this month.

  Regards

   

• Mesmorizer 614 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 2:58 PM

  Hi,

  Great thread but looking at numbers I would like to offer up another example of what may be occuring. I belive the new Legend tier will be based on 100 rounds as it makes sense. The reason for the 100 rounds was to not promote people immediatly. If I am right all Legends as of update would have a calculation like follows :

  ((Avg at update)+((all round for 100 ranked avg. divided by 100)) divided by 2) or in easier terms existing Legends at game update actually have 101 rounds with your avg at time of update with only the base not being able to be changed or improved. All New Legends I beleive will have to only get 100 ranked rounds.

  We are talking in general as WGT likes to keep these numbers secret. The Tour Legend avg. could be 400 or more will have to wait and see, but having to do 500 rounds before avg. stops and improve on all thouse round just doesnt make sense with the model they have made at this time.

  If you use my calculations Genorb you will see your avg does the exact same thing, only time will tell.

   

  Mes.

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 3:17 PM

  Hi Mesmorizer,

  thanks for your input.

  Indeed, that's not yet clear if someone who turn legend after the update will need 100 or 500 rounds to be promoted Tour Legend. But the gap between those two numbers is so large that we will know quite easily later which number is the correct one.

  There is two interpretations:

  1. They imposed these 100 additional rounds because you just need 100 rounds to be promoted Tour Legend and they wanted to put everybody on equal footing even those who have already played 1000+ rounds as legend.
  2. They imposed these 100 additional rounds because you need 500 rounds and they have only the best 400 rounds of each player in their database. So they needed 100 additional rounds to feed their database to compute the definitive average before promoting any player.

  We will see which option is the correct one.

  Thanks again,

  Regards

• mrenn29 380 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 4:07 PM

  The faster you move to TL, the faster you wont be able to play in the legend rg's. I'd take my time if you are a consistent rg player.Prob wont be TL rg's for another month or so.

  my .02 or advice,however you look at it :)

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 4:38 PM

  mrenn29:

  The faster you move to TL, the faster you wont be able to play in the legend rg's. I'd take my time if you are a consistent rg player.Prob wont be TL rg's for another month or so.

  my .02 or advice,however you look at it :)

  I heard on the grapevine that until there's enough tour legends to make up tour legend rg's/comps etc, then they are going to be able to play in the legend tier rg's for the time being.

  i don't know if this is correct....maybe icon can chime in to clarify the situation.

  tbe

• lbcgolf 314 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 5:06 PM

  Hey Fabien, thanks for pointing me here with your explanation.  Your hard work is invaluable to the WGT community.

  I saw some dude back a couple of pages who contends that some of us with low averages play nothing but easy RGs from forward tees is pretty laughable.  As some have already pointed out, there's a huge difference between playing free multi-play tourneys or free ranked rounds, versus ponying up 1000 of your hard earned credits against the best of the best.

  While I don't wish to fan some still smoldering embers on this fine discussion, it DOES bring up a good point.  Not all 9 or 18 hole rounds on the various courses under various conditions are equal with respect to how tough it is to shoot a decent score.  Furthermore, if you're calculating averages on gross scores posted, you have the added complication of courses with par of 34 through 37 on 9s and 70 to 72 on 18s.  In other words, if I have a theoretical 60 average, I only need a -4 to shoot my average on Olympic front 9 and a whopping -7 on Whistler front 9.

  This is why for those of us who maintain real handicaps with the USGA stateside (I dunno how the R&A does it for the rest of the world), we've been playing with a "slope system" for many years.

  http://www.usga.org/handicapping/publications/The-Truth-About-Slope/

  They predetermine how tough or easy the various courses are and recognize that if you shoot 72 on one course, it's not the same as shooting 72 on another and your handicap is adjusted accordingly.

  It's high time WGT recognized this and made similar adjustments to the way they calculate player averages.  Now the slope system DOES NOT make allowances for whether you play under high winds or if the greens are playing fast or slow on any given day... but it's arguable that WGT can take these factors into account as well.

  Probably not an item high on their "to do" list, but it makes for interesting conversation (for me anyways, lol)

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 5:25 PM

  Hi Lbc,

  thanks for your very nice input.

  I completely agree with you. Average as it is computed now doesn't have much meaning for the various reasons you mentioned (Par is different depending on the course, not all courses are equally easy/difficult, low or high wind, green speed etc.).

  It would be nice indeed if all these factors were taken into account to compute average.

  I do hope this will come at some point but in a transparent way, where they explain the rules and the algorithm they use to compute the average, because as it is now we had to figure it out ourself. It was easy enough to find how it works, but if you start to weight the course, the wind, the tee distance, the green speed etc, it will be impossible to guess how average is computed.

  Of course, due to the existence of unlimited play for example and due to the fact that we pay each round we play (through the ball we use), they cannot force players to finish a round. So whatever the system used, if your ultimate goal is to have a low average you will always be able to quit bad rounds and post only good scores. At least I do not see a fair way to avoid that (oblige players to finish every round they start is not fair in my view because you force players to waste credits which is not a big deal for those who has plenty but for those who don't have much, that's quite bad).

  Thanks again for your nice post.

  Regards

• spitlist 119 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 5:39 PM

  I keep reading about "averages" in all these posts.  I know for a fact that the scores attached to anyone's ranking is NOT an average of all his rounds.  It can't be.  I finally reached Legend tier after my "average" got down to 60.  I can count on one hand the number of rounds I have shot that were under 60 so how it got there if it truly is an average is beyond my comprehension.  

   

  At best it is a weighted average taking into consideration the severity of the courses and conditions that have been played.  But even that is a stretch in my estimation.  Most likely the more rounds you play, the lower your "average" creeps until finally you reach the next tier.  Very good rounds will speed up that transition.

• lbcgolf 314 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 6:19 PM

  Whatever you want to call it.  But for the purpose of discussion, if you click your profile the box right next to "LEVEL" and "TIER," is "AVG SCORE."  Whether it's fair, not, and how it's calculated is the topic of this thread.  It'd be confusing if Bob was calling it "ego number," Ralph was calling it "sandbagging tool" and Charlie referred to it as "that-number-thingie," wouldn't it?

  Nevertheless, sandbagging is indeed a problem both in WGT as well as the real world. So it's in the best interest of everyone that all players' numbers be kept as low as possible.  Hell in the real world your handicap is determined by averaging the best 10 scores you shot out of the last 20 you played.  Assuming that your playing skill is reasonably steady, the likelihood that you'll shoot to your handicap or better is about 1 in 4.  Over here.... maybe 1 in 7?  1 in 10?  I'm ok with that.

• lemlin 8 Posts

  Mon, Aug 6 2012 6:21 PM

  So quit already and stop hijacking a thread with your trolling