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Changes to the FAQ - Averages/Tier

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 2:56 PM

  WGTpizza:

  PUHOLINO:

  I just want to add this. If baggers only start beating on lower tiers in challenge games, the current system won't punish them, so it in fact only "protects" legends and we are the ones that need protection the least.

  Bottom line - if someone tries to "sandbag", or purposely maintain a lower tier in order to misrepresent their skill, this feature will identify these actions and adjust the player's tier to match their skill level.

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

  I'm sorry, as I understood the FAQ change, only winning against a person of a higher or same tier will lower someones avg (with MP games), so a TM with tour legend skill could potentially beat up on masters until the end of time. And since skins aren't included, they can do it there as well.

  At least that's how I read it, am I missing something?

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:03 PM

  WGTpizza:

  You just consistently displayed a skill level higher than your current tier, so you were moved up faster than those who perform at a skill level equal to their current tier.

  May or may not be true, since wins are the thing the get you tiered up, and legitimate wins and wins through disconnects/forfeits are being thrown in the same basket and please don't even try to say that's not true after all that's been written by now.

  If I lose to a master in a MP because I had a terrible round or my connection was crappy, that doesn't mean they have skills to become a legend, it just means my game and internet were bad.

• oneeyedjohn 9,588 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:08 PM

  too true ^^

  but why worry, it doesn't affect us.

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:11 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  May or may not be true, since wins are the thing the get you tiered up

  I have stated this several times, PUHOLINO, and I apologize for the bold letters, but I feel like I'm not getting my message across:

  This system is much more comprehensive than tracking wins/losses.

  IF YOU CONSISTENTLY DISPLAY AN OVER ALL SKILL LEVEL THAT IS HIGHER THAN YOUR CURRENT TIER, YOUR TIER WILL BE ADJUSTED.

  As you know, we can't go in to details of what this system tracks, in order to prevent manipulation. I realize this is asking for a little bit of blind faith, but this is the nature of this feature.

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:13 PM

  oneeyedjohn:

  too true ^^

  but why worry, it doesn't affect us.

  I think it does, it's getting really hard to get a random MP game, And good luck finding people to play inter or intra CC matches against a higher tier.

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:23 PM

  WGTpizza:

  I have stated this several times, PUHOLINO, and I apologize for the bold letters, but I feel like I'm not getting my message across:

  This system is much more comprehensive than tracking wins/losses.

  IF YOU CONSISTENTLY DISPLAY AN OVER ALL SKILL LEVEL THAT IS HIGHER THAN YOUR CURRENT TIER, YOUR TIER WILL BE ADJUSTED

   

  No apologies needed. But as you know and as I have stated many times, when you can turn a very average master  into a TM with 5 lost connections, it's only about wins! At least when MPs are concerned. I know it's more comprehensive when it comes to RGs, but as far as MPs go, it's only about total wins, not even the win/loss ratio. So either you were misinformed, or... Don't tell me I'm blind, when avg drops by 3 strokes after 2 disconnects with no skill displayed and these are the only 2 wins against a higher tier this person had in his life. And it's not about wins? C'mon man!

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 3:29 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  But as you know and as I have stated many times, when you can turn a very average master  into a TM with 5 lost connections, it's only about wins!

  I can only tell you the declassified information on the feature that I learned from it's creators. This feature is not only about wins.

  Not to doubt your claim, but I would encourage the player who has experienced moving up in tiers after 5 games to contact me privately, and directly. This is contrary to the intel that I have, so naturally I am skeptical. The information we could gather from a player who has actually experienced this would be valuable to our ongoing evaluation of this feature.

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• Lyrac 177 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 4:02 PM

  Actualy I dont want your congratulations. And if my so called skill level was sufficient  so what? I started here and hoped one day to work my way to legend like all the other greats who i watched and admired did. by strokeplay. giving me this c rap has just dropped a poop on my gam,e from a great hieght and makes me feel i wasted my entire year here trying to achieve the greatest height I could. now I feel worthless becuase you clowns cant get it in your heads that friendly MPS dont mean nothing to a sandbagger. take the cloth off your ears and listen to what the paying public want. Except me, Im glad now I spent hours on end watching vids and didnt spend a penny here. That would have been double waste

   

  so you can keep your smart avoidance techniques and glib congrats and have from me what i really think of the system you foisted on us which you wouldnt even print

  Ty for nothing

  again

   keep it procastrinating classy my buttocks

• bubbadork 984 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 4:08 PM

  Without getting into the pros or cons of the particulars, let me say this: there are systems that rate people's skill. They're all over the place. Consider, for one instance, the world-wide rating of chess players. Their ratings are a form of the ELO system.

  I could describe this in great detail, using about lebenty-zillion pages, but there wouldn't be much point.

  Just let me say that win-loss ratio is meaningless. A person who wins 20% of his or her games against the world champion is clearly more advanced than the person who wins 90% of his or her games against a rotting fence post.

  The implementation of such a system is sort of a chicken and egg situation. One is rated against his or her opponents, but where did the opponents get their rating? 

  You can find a little (very little) about this on my website. It needs a very careful formula. The formula will vary according to the ratio of skill versus chance in determining the winner of a particular game.  A dice game or a card game will have more elements of chance than a game of more purely skill, such as chess. Even in a game of (supposedly) pure skill, there are elements of variation that influence the game. Maybe player A just had a car accident, or his or her mother died, while the opponent just won a million dollar lottery. The effects are real. One does the best they can to rate people honestly.

• Ffudd 2,541 Posts

  Thu, Nov 15 2012 4:32 PM

  WGTpizza:

  If you knew that more "guilty" were being"caught" than "innocent", would you feel differently?

  Can I put that question to you Pizza ?

  On your way home from work a traffic cop stops you and give you a ticket even though you weren't speeding. He explains that too many people speed on this piece of road so they decided to give everyone travelling northbound a ticket regardless of how fast they are going.

  Presumably you would tell the cop that there were better / fairer / easier ways to catch the people who were speeding and you could point out all the people flying past on the other side of the road who weren't getting stopped (just look at the lower tier leaderboards to see a list of the sandbaggers that the system hasn't stopped).

  Would you question their methods or if you knew that more "guilty" were being"caught" than "innocent", would you feel differently?