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Is the R1 Driver making the WGT less competitive? An empirical investigation.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Apr 25 2013 11:40 PM

  Guess it's for the number cruncher to chime back in;)

• DaveStrock 919 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 1:19 AM

  And being the great player you are Spammage I'm sure the R1 is or will be in your bag soon,my point is as games progress so does the better equipment over time but a time restraint should not penalize newer players to the game,WGT would be more prosperous if they predicated equipment to tier instead of level,I have learned a lot from long time players by playing with them and reading everything I can find in the forums and appreciate it very much but the inability to obtain the best equipment is hampering my game and therefore making players in my position less likely to enter Rg's or any pay to play tourney knowing we are out gunned and have little chance of being as competitive as we could be with the best equipment,kudos to you long time players but I still say equipment restrictions are hurting the game...

• Chinajohn 1,190 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 1:37 AM

  I'm sorry, I'm not a statistician but I do feel I'm pretty good at logic and I feel the OP's impressive research is flawed.

  The OP appears to be assuming that all players that reach level 98 use the R1 driver and further that since the R1 was introduced that has been the only item in their inventory they have changed, further that no player has started (or stopped) playing RGs since the introduction of the R1 for any non R1 related reason.

  I suspect that there are a huge number of variables other than the R1 driver, e.g. balls, irons, wedges, etc that some players have changed and also many of the players at Lvl 98 are 'elite' players who quite possibly would have won RGs with starter equipment.

  For this research to be truly empirical it would have to use a 'double blind' methodology AND take into account ALL other variables, which as far as I can see has not happened.

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 1:37 AM

  I think the whole game would be better if the top clubs were the G20's and the best ball was a Callaway. It would be more realistic but I guess WGT would make less money.

• borntobesting 9,710 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 3:30 AM

  It doesn't matter how far you drive the ball or how well you play your approach shots if you can't putt you won't score well. The R1 can't make you a better putter. All it can do is give you a few more yards and a few more fairways hit. The top players putt very well. That is the rel difference,

• Tightrope 1,072 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 3:38 AM

  borntobesting:

  It doesn't matter how far you drive the ball or how well you play your approach shots if you can't putt you won't score well.

  This is repeated in absurdum. I say that the % of one putts is standing in direct relation to average distance to pin. No matter if you are a good or a bad putter you will sink more putts from a shorter distance. If the driver will allow you to approach with a smaller club, the approach will, on average, be better. If the approach is better, your putt will be easier.

  A good result, specially an eagle, usually starts with a good drive. You need to reach the green before you can putt.

• GoodyChamp 595 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 4:28 AM

  Tightrope:

  borntobesting:

  It doesn't matter how far you drive the ball or how well you play your approach shots if you can't putt you won't score well.

  This is repeated in absurdum. I say that the % of one putts is standing in direct relation to average distance to pin. No matter if you are a good or a bad putter you will sink more putts from a shorter distance. If the driver will allow you to approach with a smaller club, the approach will, on average, be better. If the approach is better, your putt will be easier.

  A good result, specially an eagle, usually starts with a good drive. You need to reach the green before you can putt.

  so true

   

  Badfinger100:

  In a nut shell it is very obvious that the R1 is the most dominate driver in the game,even the big dogs admit that,trying to defend the requirement to get to level 98 to obtain one is ridiculous,same with the R11's 3wood.....Equipment should be obtainable when the skills to use them have been achieved and I would say anyone who has obtained Legend status deserves to be able to purchase the best equipment available bar none.

     Those who say they have paid their dues by playing the game longer are being very selfish in my humble opinion,not everyone discovers this game at the same time or plays 24hrs a day,......

  Agreed 100%.

   

  Think it's time 4 a redefinition of the Proshop by WGT.

  In the old days available equipment was purely Tier-based, now it's mainly based on Levels. IMO it should have the best of both. Tier- as well as Level-based. In this way you can tackle sandbagging better (e.g. no more Top equiped level 91 amateurs with diamond tournament finishes only).

  Further on it's only fair 2, let's say Level 90+ Legends & TourLegends, 2 have access 2 all equipment in the proshop. They have played a lot .....and well.

  Finally it would be a big improvement 2 make the "best in it's class" equipment available 2 Legends and TourLegends ONLY (e.g R1 L98 and R11irons L90). Only when there's new better equipment introduced, this equipment becomes available 2 lower tiers - i.e. before introducing the L98 R1, the R11S L94/90 should have been available 2 (Tour)Legends only. With the introduction of the R1 L98, this would have been the new "(Tour)Legend driver only" and the R11 L94/90 now is available 2 TourMasters and, depending on the new Proshop-classification, 2 subsequent lower Tiers.

  So...WGT, make up ur MIND....it's time 4 CHANGE!!!!

  Cheers, GC

   

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 5:15 AM

  Tightrope:

  If the driver will allow you to approach with a smaller club, the approach will, on average, be better

  This is true but not what makes the difference with the R1. You may get 1/2 to 1 club more off the tee but the fact that you're in the fairway makes a bigger difference. This is where the R1 trumps everything-it's hard NOT to be in the fairway with it. This is a little confusing to me because you would think that  the added distance would come with some risk in getting it. There is no risk, the driver forgives too much.

   

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 5:41 AM

  Chinajohn:

  For this research to be truly empirical it would have to use a 'double blind' methodology AND take into account ALL other variables, which as far as I can see has not happened.

  How would you propose doing a 'double blind' study on this data?  Hide which driver Tour Legends are hitting, even from the TLs?  LMAO!  Blind studies are done to eliminate bias.  Seems to me the OP has done a single blind study, not knowing which TL has an R1 while collecting the data on Levels.

  Empirical Research:  An empirical article is a research article that reports the results of a study that uses data derived from actual observation or experimentation.

  I think the criteria has been met.
  

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Apr 26 2013 6:00 AM

  YankeeJim:

  This is true but not what makes the difference with the R1. You may get 1/2 to 1 club more off the tee but the fact that you're in the fairway makes a bigger difference. This is where the R1 trumps everything-it's hard NOT to be in the fairway with it. This is a little confusing to me because you would think that  the added distance would come with some risk in getting it. There is no risk, the driver forgives too much.

  This does not bode well for those without the R1 in US Open qualifying on Merion.  It would appear to me a long, accurate driver like the R1 is a big advantage on a 'short' (under 7000yds) course with narrow fairways.  I could see the cut line being driven downwards by those with the R1 to such an extent those below L98 have little hope in qualifying.

  Each year I played my butt off trying to qualify.  Used lots of balls trying.  I don't see that happening this year.  If that's true for others below L98, then the total qualifying rounds played will be way down compared to prior years.

  It would be beneficial for WGT to change the availability of the R1 and make it available to a larger segment of the members before the qualifier.