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Is the R1 Driver making the WGT less competitive? An empirical investigation.

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:09 AM

  MBaggese:

  The only way you can claim "proof beyond reasonable doubt"...would be if, you looked at each top 5 players equipment and verified they had the R1 in their bag.

  Well I just looked at the last four tournaments I played in (48468,48464,48378,48300) and 34 of 37 players at or above 98 had it equipped.  Thats 92% but even if it were 80% it would a lot more than the control group's 0%.  If 100% were using the club wouldn't the data be more robust, not less?

  MBaggese:

  Another point worth mentioning is you have to take into account how many level 98's + were there when the R1 became available?  I'm sure not as many as there are now.

  Ok, help me out and get me some data then:)  Why do I have to do all the work? ;)  We could actually produce a nice estimate just by looking at the distribution of levels at and above level 98.  I'm guessing somewhere between 2 and 5%.

  MBaggese:

  Lastly, myself as an example, was just gifted the R1 last week..prior to that I used the R11..not R11s, in fact many of the TL's I play with still use the R11s.

  See first response

  .

  MBaggese:

  One additional note, is say from level 97 to level 98...is a long climb, where many rounds are put in and stands to reason the player will play better at level 98, than they did at level 97...more experience for myself..even now at level 102, makes me more consistent which makes me play better most of the time.

  So at level 98 players are getting struck by a magic bolt of WGT virtual golf lightning and becoming better players?  I think your going too far now just trying to come up with anything to play devils ad.

   

   

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:14 AM

  I might agree. But how many experience points to get to level 81?  Anyone can achieve level 81 in a few months of heavy play.  Some get there in 6 weeks or less.  But yes - golf balls have a huge impact.  Note I called the R1 the most powerful club.

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:16 AM

   

   

  DAZZA501:

  Personally i think the new nike ball at level 81 has had a bigger impact on scoring by Tour Legends than the R1 driver. That slightly slower meter we now get makes it easier to play the R11 irons and as every top player knows it's the R11 irons that make the super good rounds possible and not the R1 driver.

  I might agree. But how many experience points to get to level 81?  Anyone can achieve level 81 in a few months of heavy play.  Some get there in 6 weeks or less.  But yes - golf balls have a huge impact.  Note I called the R1 the most powerful club.  The R11 Irons are a huge step above the G20s but they are not 850,000 experience points apart and they consist of 8 clubs.

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:23 AM

  MBaggese:

   Sure, winning a RG is a thrill, but being in the top 10-12 (on an average) in a RG, pays the WGT bills;)

  Very misleading statement.  If you always finish 10th to 12th you might be slightly in the black.  But we all have rounds where we just don't play well at all so you really need to break top 5's to win money.  If your best scores are 10th to 12th your going to be doing a lot of surveys to play free here.

   

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:30 AM

  bhoese:

  Spammage, AllyKennedy and FMagnets are all level 98.  Those three win a ton of top 5s, and the same was true when they were 97s.  If any of those players moved to 98 at any point during the time of the study it would skew the results, and could be enough to account for much of the increase if just one of them leveled up close to the release of the R1.  

  If 2 of the 3 moved to 98 very close to the introduction of the R1 it would probably explain the entire difference.  It wouldn't even matter if they actually bought the R1.

  That said, it's stupid to have anything of value at 98.

  Spammage just replied that 'he hit level 98 yesterday'.  Which means he wasn't even in the study as a level 98 and above.  This would effectively be the antithesis of what your saying.  His great play was representing the under 98 crowd.  So it works both ways.

   

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:31 AM

  MBaggese:

  Guess it's for the number cruncher to chime back in;)

  Yep:)

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:39 AM

  Chinajohn:

  I'm sorry, I'm not a statistician but I do feel I'm pretty good at logic and I feel the OP's impressive research is flawed.

  The OP appears to be assuming that all players that reach level 98 use the R1 driver and further that since the R1 was introduced that has been the only item in their inventory they have changed, further that no player has started (or stopped) playing RGs since the introduction of the R1 for any non R1 related reason.

  I suspect that there are a huge number of variables other than the R1 driver, e.g. balls, irons, wedges, etc that some players have changed and also many of the players at Lvl 98 are 'elite' players who quite possibly would have won RGs with starter equipment.

  For this research to be truly empirical it would have to use a 'double blind' methodology AND take into account ALL other variables, which as far as I can see has not happened.

  The 'huge' number of variables you mention is just not true.  The new Nike golf balls are level 81, which means both the under 98 and 98 and over group are both using them.... Its a wash!  What other equipment product separates these two groups?  Furthermore what other equipment product separates these two groups that was just introduced recently?  None. 

   

   

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:45 AM

  notonthis:

  The best statement i have heard from you in awhile and i fully agree. I want to know how many people would bet me i could not make top ten next month with the level 80 rocketball driver.

  Well...yeah, but you better play all day and all night.

   

• Birdiesimmo 22 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 2:56 AM

  DAZZA501:

  When all these guys get to level 98 they're going to be so disappointed with the R1 driver. Everyone is making it out to be some kind of magic wand. Yeah it's pretty accurate but then so is both the R11's and the G20. The things that knock shots off your game is R11 irons, Clevo/ATV wedges, Nike/Ghost putters & Nike balls.

  The reason for trying to quantify this was that it IS hard to tell what a club really can do by just playing rounds with it.

  The R1 might quietly do nothing but add a few yards on the vast majority of holes but when you hit that rare par 5 in two, chip in from just off the par 4 green or you avoid the fescue  because of the the slow meter, thats all you need.  A full stroke per 18 improvement is really a lot for a club provide. 

   

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Sun, Apr 28 2013 8:09 AM

  MBaggese:

  I took things another way.....hence my reply.

  Feel free to send me a "slap up the head" when ya feel fit:)

  Not needed!  All good here.