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Elevations To Greens and...

• spy88 205 Posts

  Tue, May 13 2014 6:26 PM

  A few weeks ago, I posted my suggestion in "Everything Else" regarding showing the elevation of a green (along with the distance to hole) to all players at all times.  Hoped for a response from WGT but none came.  At the time, had I both eyes open, I would have put it here instead of there.

  So...hoping to get a response now, here it is.  Why do you deem it necessary to withhold it, or deem it unnecessary to include it?  The true benefit of having this information while waiting for your turn would allow one to formulate their shot faster thus reducing overall round time, logically anyway.  It's a fair, good and logical thing to do for everyone.     Or....why not?  I just can't mentally get past this til I hear from WGT (and maybe not even then).

  And while I (hopefully) have your attention, I would also ask why there are yardage discrepancies from tee to green?  Example: A straight 500 yd. hole. I drive it 295 so I should have 205 left.  But no.  I've seen differences of over 20 yards and not just my yardage but my playing partners also. As it has no bearing on play, please explain for my own sanity.  3+1 should always equal 4...but not here.  New math?  Non-exact GPS? 

  Ok, let me get it ALL out.  I also suggested one day a month for a "windless" (or at least normal winds that are inherent to each of the courses offered) for rated rounds. I did research on the recorded monthly averages for every course here but Oakmont.  None of them exceed 13 mph as a average wind speed over any one month of the year...including SA and RSG.  Yes, there are abnormal periods where weather, being controlled by the proverbial "butterfly" in Africa (and WGT obviously), conspires to ruin one's outing, but they are not the norm.  Now, I understand why the wind conditions we play in thru WGT are in place...I'm not asking to lower them to normal conditions all the time.  Just once a month, randomly pick a time zone or two as a "gesture" of bestowing your divine grace upon those of us who faithfully believe in the golfing gods. 

  Please explain why, if one is in the motion of making the swing, one can time out.  Can't you set it so if the swing is at least started, it stops the timer?  That's fair.   

  Please explain how a ball flying into a bunker can be a 15% lie while one rolling into it is a fried egg?

   And lastly, how much longer am I going to have to separate my words with a period/dash/anything for chatting in a game?  Thought this was to be fixed eons ago.

  Finally, thank you WGT for being available.  After 46 years of irl play but sidelined from a bad back, you fulfill the void better then not playing at all.  I'm hooked for life and have already spent more money here in the past 3 months then my cell phone bill...still cheaper then the real thing.  As much as I (and/or others) may ask/want/wish it were more like real golf, I accept the fact it will never be so.  Aside from the game, controlling one's finger is a far far easier task then the entire body for a shot, and the difference will never be breached. 

  Please...anyone/everyone comment away!  Especially WGT!

   

• 2,840 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 3:01 AM

  In terms of giving you the information about elevation and distance while you are waiting... answer is quite simply it gives you an unfair advantage.  If I am 1 yard behind you I have to hit first so that gives me a maximum of 90 seconds to decide on my shot.  While you for being second to hit now have a maximum of 3 minutes to go over all the variables and decide.  Before you say well the pros can make their decisions while the other player hits, they rarely do. They will start thinking about it but they won't look at elevation and distance until they are actually up to their ball. Everything prior is just guess work.

  WGTdbloshoe

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 3:27 AM

  spy88:

  And lastly, how much longer am I going to have to separate my words with a period/dash/anything for chatting in a game?  Thought this was to be fixed eons ago

  Doesn't your space bar work?    Not sure what you mean by this, sorry

  -Roger

• MainzMan 9,591 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 5:22 AM

  mantis0014:

  Doesn't your space bar work?    Not sure what you mean by this, sorry

  This was an issue with Chrome ages ago, I too thought it had been fixed.  The space bar simply did, or apparently still does, nothing, meaning all the words werewrittentogether or people had to use underline_to_separate_words.

  As far as I know it only effects chat during a game.

  I don't know if this is still something unique to Chrome, I seem to recall reading something about IE being hit by it too.

• ProChuck39 12 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 6:57 AM

  Have to agree with much of what you say, and would also like to include the fact that shots, do not always react the same way.  I'm referring to the fact that a 160 yd club does not always fly 160 yds, and this is irregardless of the fact that you may have a trailing wind. Also as you said about bunker shots, why do you have buried lies when the ball rolls into a bunker?  Another pet peeve is that you try to look at a green sometimes and it gives you an airial view from 300 ft up, this is ridiculous.  Love playing the game but to many inconsistancies in the way it plays. I think they have tried to incorporate too many different club configurations and ball configurations to have an accurate formula that allows you to estimate anything using a mathematical formula, at least nothing you can rely on.  Have done better by estimating and then taking my best guess.

• spy88 205 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 8:48 AM

  MainzMan:

  As far as I know it only effects chat during a game.

  Yes, this is one area affected...so too is titling a saved replay.  I've IE and the problem remains.

  Thank you for the response about the advantage of being second (or third or fourth) to hit with advance elevation knowledge.  I thought of that also but assumed, in the overall scheme of things, this would be self-balancing as during a round of 2, 3 or 4 people, everyone would, at one time or another be in the first shooter position.  So the advantage alternates.  It still (should) speed up play.

  No comments on the tee to green yardages?  No comments on the bunker lie issue?  Trivial I know but unanswered.

• ApexPC 3,164 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 11:12 AM

  ProChuck39:

  I'm referring to the fact that a 160 yd club does not always fly 160 yds, and this is irregardless of the fact that you may have a trailing wind. 

  The yardage associated with each club is an approximation, not gospel.

  The ball used, the course being played, elevation change from hit to landing area, the terrain shape where the ball lands, cross/quartering/head/tail winds, ball spin set by the player, ding or not dinged, etc - all affect the distance a shot goes.

  So you have to pay attention to how those variable affect each club in your bag.

  With the ball I play (Lvl 81+ Nike) all my irons (PW - 3i) hit the ball further than their estimated distance.

  FWIW - real clubs have no distance rating. 

  Most pros play using forged irons so the loft and lie can be tweaked for their swing.

• MainzMan 9,591 Posts

  Wed, May 14 2014 11:31 AM

  spy88:

  No comments on the bunker lie issue?

   

  spy88:

  Please explain how a ball flying into a bunker can be a 15% lie while one rolling into it is a fried egg?

  Sorry, still too busy laughing at your post, love the fried egg reference.  I've never considered that before but you're absolutely right.  Bunker lie is way more about how the ball lands than where it lands within the bunker.

  I think the tee to green yardages can be explained by some of the hole yardages being measured to the centre of the green, rather than the actual hole location.  Dogleg holes will also have discrepancies as the measurement, as far as I know anyway,  is taken by following the middle of the fairway, including round the corner.  In reality you may well cut the corner quite a bit, BPB #1 for instance, thereby saving quite a few yards.

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Thu, May 15 2014 12:33 AM

  MainzMan:

  mantis0014:

  Doesn't your space bar work?    Not sure what you mean by this, sorry

  This was an issue with Chrome ages ago, I too thought it had been fixed.  The space bar simply did, or apparently still does, nothing, meaning all the words werewrittentogether or people had to use underline_to_separate_words.

  As far as I know it only effects chat during a game.

  I don't know if this is still something unique to Chrome, I seem to recall reading something about IE being hit by it too.

  Yes, I've seen that in the chats and always wondered why....lol

  I changed to Firefox and haven't used Chrome since we couldn't relpy to any posts. I think the problem might be Flash related with the relationship with Chrome. They don't like each other at the moment.

  This is what happens when something like Flash becomes the Ultimate, It's upto to everything else who uses it to tweak something or be left behind treading water.

  With the Bunkers....    I think the Lie in bunkers might be Preset in the Program depending on where the ball finishes and that setting might change day to day.

  Just a couple of theories I have.....lol

  -Roger

   

• spy88 205 Posts

  Thu, May 15 2014 11:24 AM

  Thank you for your response dbloshoe, and I hate to beat a dead horse but...

  WGTdbloshoe:

  If I am 1 yard behind you I have to hit first so that gives me a maximum of 90 seconds to decide on my shot.  While you for being second to hit now have a maximum of 3 minutes to go over all the variables and decide.

  You've neglected to extend your example to the rest of the round (or even the rest of the hole) where the positions will almost certainly be reversed.  A TL or L head-to-head with a TM or lower may follow your reasoning.  But not always.  With a 3-some or 4-some, 95% of shots (be it tee to fairway, fairway to fairway, fairway to green) are rotated among the players depending on the accuracy and length of their previous shot.  No one will always be at a timed disadvantage thus negating your statement...

  WGTdbloshoe:

  it gives you a unfair advantage.

  Let's say I honor off a 485 yard par 4, and the elevation to the green is 12 feet (always shown in the upper right box with the distance).  After I hit, it comes to rest 270 yards from the hole and I again see my distance left and elevation (same/lower/higher).  While my fellow players tee off with the same elevation knowledge, I'm contemplating my next shot.  I'm out-distanced by all so I hit first.  While I'm doing that, the others are contemplating their shot with as much time as I had (or more).  Even if I'm last to tee off then first to hit a second, I still know the elevation immediately.  The time "advantage" will always rotate and balance out no matter where you are from the honor position.

  It was, and is still my contention that there is no disproportionate advantage given to a player thru a 9 or 18 hole round.  It was, and still is my contention that if elevations are always available, speed of play is beneficially affected and that has always been my point.

  BTW, I was never going to bring up irl play (pro or amateur) as it has absolutely no bearing what-so-ever with WGT golf.  By your comparison of the two in the same statement, you open up a myriad of major and minor differences between the two that can and never will be breached and I realize this.  In WGT, the eyes relate info to the brain which in turn, will control the finger on a mouse button.  Real golf, the brain must control the entire musculoskeletal, nerve and breathing centers.  A online game will never reproduce this.

  Rebuttal(s) please?