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Wind Fairness

• HackWilson1930 1,437 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 12:49 PM

  Remember last year's Ladies Open Championship. Winds were so bad they suspended play How would you feel if you knew the morning people had less wind and thus an advantage . A little randomness is fine for me since the challenge is from within. What others do is only a benchmark for me. But put money on the line and it should be somewhat equal.

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 1:59 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Analogy fails, Jim. For starters, they're all playing at the same time in the same group. Same way here-all play the same wind. Whether or not it gusts fairly is another thought.

  I think the point you made about same time same group is exactly the reason the analogy works.  

  If a group is out (leaders for example next round PH) they should have the same basic wind, gusts aside.  Now if you are going to sim it properly, same time same group is exactly the reason the random winds fail.  That first par 4 and also par 5 to two leaders, same group (would be IRL) and one gets two HWs and one two TWs that's huge.  

  Now as I understand it, and stand to be corrected,  that could well be the case and that two shot swing chance is enormous.

  High wind Par 5 RGs especially are mayhem........

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 3:04 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  Now if you are going to sim it properly, same time same group is exactly the reason the random winds fail.

  But that's not the case here. A group here or in RL all play the same winds on a given hole. The winds don't get random between shots, just holes. Taking that to single play, I see how the luck of the draw plays with the winds. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes he chows on you.

  To the winds in RGs, I don't see why it couldn't be the exact same for everybody. I seriously doubt somebody paying $ to play is going to be  sharing info and so what if they do? Are you going to change your bag because the wind is blowing a certain way on one hole? The way I understand it, whatever VEM is doing to the player's game, I don't think it's done by jerking the wind around on them.

• JimbeauC 5,835 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 4:21 PM

  YankeeJim:

  But they don't and that's his point.

  You missed the part where I told him he was absolutely correct. 

  JimbeauC:

  ]I can generally figure out which way the wind is blowing and am reasonably sure that everyone else will experience very nearly the same conditions

  I was talking about real golf in contrast to WGT - agreeing with him and blowing off the silly response I got ages ago. 

  ----

  Funnily enough, now I'd be happy having the same wind while the ball is in the air. Getting tired of seeing them bend into the wind. But. That's another story for another thread. 

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 4:28 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Taking that to single play, I see how the luck of the draw plays with the winds. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes he chows on you.

  I a big tourney it's not a strong point for WGT at the very least I will say that much.  

  YankeeJim:

  To the winds in RGs

  RGs well I don't think VEM plays as much a part as some do, but that's all done elsewhere and I can't be A$$ed getting in that anyway as you probably can't:)...RG High wind Par 5s is a nonsense for though. There are cases of mostly head winds for one versus another getting several tail winds, and in a 9 hole Par 5 RG.........well clearly nonsense to me.

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Fri, Jun 13 2014 4:28 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Taking that to single play, I see how the luck of the draw plays with the winds. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes he chows on you.

  I a big single play tourney it's not a strong point for WGT at the very least I will say that much.  

  YankeeJim:

  To the winds in RGs

  RGs  VEM I can't be A$$ed getting into one way or other as you probably can't:)...RG High wind Par 5s is a nonsense for sure though IMO. There are cases of mostly head winds for one versus another getting several more tail winds, and in a 9 hole Par 5 RG.........well clearly nonsense whatever spin the mods try and put on it as they must I guess.  If I feel like doing a RG I just stay well clear of that particular one usually.

   

• MukilteoMike1 46 Posts

  Sat, Jun 14 2014 5:25 AM

  The wind thing drives me crazy.  It is unbelievably unfair.  While it's obvious that huge differences are unfair on Par 5s, competitions like the Criquet Cup with all Par 3s will also be ridiculously luck-based in the final round.  With most shots being made with long irons, the wind plays a huge role on most holes. Give someone 12+ headwinds instead of 12+ tailwinds and you've stacked the odds considerably in their favor. 

  While I understand why there is randomness, luck could be reduced by using the following guidelines or something similar:

  Light winds--wind is completely random and can blow any direction.

  Medium winds--wind direction is given a 120 degree window instead of a full 360 degrees.

  High winds--wind is given a 60 degree window to blow. 

  Here's an example.  A hole is generated with winds blowing to 12 o'clock.  If it's light winds, it can still randomly choose anywhere to blow.  For medium winds, it would blow anywhere from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock.  If it's high winds, it would blow any where from 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock.

  Granted, this still wouldn't make all things equal, but it does make it more fair.

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Sat, Jun 14 2014 7:37 AM

  Fair ? Fair is what I love about golf. 1 swing = 1 stroke. At the end, add up the swings and it will equal fair + rub of the green. It is as fair as fair can get, in life.

• MukilteoMike1 46 Posts

  Fri, Jun 20 2014 10:54 PM

  SweetiePie:

  Fair ? Fair is what I love about golf. 1 swing = 1 stroke. At the end, add up the swings and it will equal fair + rub of the green. It is as fair as fair can get, in life.

  SweetiePie, you're out of touch here.  The reason I like live matches is because all players get the same conditions; that's fair and equal.  For everything else, luck plays a huge factor.  For any tournament that includes a single round of play, winds would need to be similar in direction and speed (at least when winds are moderate or higher) to be reasonably fair.  Right now they're not.

• PTrenter 437 Posts

  Wed, Oct 29 2014 2:09 PM

  Thought I'd give this one a bump.  

  Any of those currently competing in the CC Grand Prix will have noticed something on this weeks CTTH course at Oakmont.  The 9th hole is always a near dead straight tailwind of around 20-25 mph.  This is everytime.  I've played it about 10 times and others in my CC have played it many more times and it's the same each time.  No exceptions.

  So, WGT have the capability to control wind to be the same for everyone in a tournament, no matter how many times you play it.  That, in a nutshell is what I was asking for in the initial post.

  The question now then is, why don't they use this in their comps?  or at least give CCs the option to 'replicate wind' when setting a tournament.