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The old payout system for ready go back..vote here

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 3:25 AM

  I agree Chris, old system is prefered by me.

  With regard to ties, then 3 players tied second would get an average of 2nd 3rd and 4th money, and the next player would get 5th place etc, as in normal pay out rules.

   

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 3:35 AM

  kam4122:

   

  Won crystal on St Andrews back nine yesterday and won 148 credits, thats a 48 credit gain for finishing 3rd.

  That does not work for me.

  I played that same ready go and noticed the number of players tied for 3rd and thought it will be interesting to see what their credit return is?

  -5 for 9 holes deserves better than 148 credits. Under the old system everyone would have received 228 credits, a fair return for a good score. -4 players didn't even get their stake back. I genuinely cannot see how this system is sustainable.

• TallAcePaul 1,455 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 3:50 AM

  There is another side to this, I don't know if it has been brought up before in this thread and I cant be bothered to check.

  WGT is not a charity it is a business that employs people, has to keep expensive equipment running and is constantly involved in R&D(which is expensive).

  WGT is, as far as I am concerned, the best sports game on the web bar none. I have not paid any money into this site since December 2009 and  I would be quite interested to know how many others out there are like me who do not pay any money into the site. 

  Please can someone name me a site with the level of gaming we have on here that is free for even the very top players?

  Is it possible there are perhaps 200 people playing free at the top end of this site. These are the people who play the game more than anyone else. So we have a site where the best customers don't pay a penny, I find that a bit bizarre.

  If this changing of the pay out system is a way to try and get some people once again putting money into the site then you cannot blame them.

  To be quite honest I think it is about time that WGT started charging regular users. I would say that if people want to come on and play free then that's what hack and Amateur tiers are for. But once people progress (and want to progress as it should be a choice) beyond that then a monthly or annual subscription should be paid.

  Everyone who plays on this site has been involved in its evolution. We all have to remember that it is a business and it does need to make money so we have to consider how the site can make money and keep us all happy. Although there is FA chance of keeping everyone happy but you know what I mean.

  I think WGT does a great job and the only thing that lets them down is there communication which is absolutely diabolical, how WGTIcon hasn't had a nervous breakdown is beyond me. Oh I forgot he has ;)

  Maybe if WGT really wanted to be progressive then there are possible avenues to go down. How about setting up a playing members committee and treat WGT like an actual Golf Club. Have elections and vote say 6 people onto said committee. Once a month this committee sits (virtually) with 3 members of WGT's hierarchy and discusses issues and the way forward. Imagine that a company treating its clients like real people, I live in hope.

  Sorry quite worn out now going to have to go lie down.

• tiffer67 1,764 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 4:12 AM

  Paul, you make a number of good points there. I too in another thread on the subject wondered how many players have enough credits to play for free? I'd imagine it's a fair number and in effect these players are no different to the hacks and amateurs that play with starters and free balls.

  I would have no complaints about paying a monthly fee to play, provided it was reasonable and it gave you unlimited balls and a decent discount off any new equipment. I'd also like to see an arrangement whereby my existing credits are taken into consideration.

  Your point on communication is spot on. I'd go further than that and say that some of the communication is nothing more than lies. I say that in regard to their changes since September. We were told the changes were to make competition more equitable. That was utter nonsense. The changes brought in were designed to sell more equipment to players. As players progress through the tiers they are dangled a carrot, a slightly better club or set then they already have, however not the best they can get. Players now are buying basic Raptures, upgraded Raptures, then the best Raptures. That's until they then opt for G10s or i15s.

  As you said WGT is a business that needs to be profitable but don't insult our intelligence by trying to cover up a money making exercise on the grounds of being equitable to the players. We can all see the real decision behind the ready go pay out change. To take as many players out of not having to pay as is possible. I find it hugely ironic that the one thing that never got any complaints on these forums was the ready go pay outs, lol.

  I am a huge fan and critic of WGT. The game is without peers. The cloak and dagger methods behind the scene I'm not a fan of. A bit of honesty and respect for the regular players wouldn't go amiss. 

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 4:12 AM

  I think one shouldnt lose sight of the fact this is in fact a skill based online gaming site, as opposed to just an online game.

  What you are saying is akin to saying the best online poker players should be forced to pay a subscription to be a member of a site, or that sites such as King.com should charge subs.

  WGT's income is from their rake, virtual equipment, advertising / associations etc. Growing the volume of all of these is what is critical if the company is to be profitable.

  I would expect as WGT grows, we would even see the 'credit' currency becoming more like 100 credits = $1 and if and when WGT comes out of beta, cashouts would become available just like any other skill based gambling site.

   

• TallAcePaul 1,455 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 6:09 AM

  Monty I was struggling with that, is it a skilled gambling site? I would say that gambling has more of a luck element although I know good gamblers who would complain bitterly at that.

  This site is foremost an on line golf game. There is a high degree of skill involved.

  I think it would be fascinating to see WGT start giving cash outs as you would then truly start creating professional online golfers. I know there are plenty of people on here who spend more than 20 hours a week on the game. That kind of time actually takes it past being a hobby!!! I have also though often, how long is beta supposed to last!! Be interesting to know of any other games that have gone past 3 years in a beta format.

  I see what you are saying about where WGT's income should be coming from but I think that actually they probably need a firmer base than that. To make the business really stable they need to charge fees. This is then regular guaranteed income to them and they can start to plan further ahead.

  The problem with working with large companies and them marketing through you is that if they decide to go in a different direction you can be left high and dry. If 25% of your income is coming from one source you can really get left in the poo poo. 

• cactuschick 35 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 6:56 AM

  I vote for old system over new payout. Also, why can't we have many more RG tournaments? I suggest WGT expand these tournaments to each stroke play course with multiple setups at each course....and tier based RG's should be the first place to start.I'm a Tour Master and my only choice is Bethpage for tier based RG.I would like to see this sort of line up....

  Andies f9: low wind....slow greens

                     mod wind....slow greens

                     high wind.....slow greens

                     low wind....standard greens

                   mod wind.....standard greens

                  high wind.....standard greens

                 low wind.......fast greens

                mod wind....fast greens

  .....I think you see my pattern and continue this through Andies b9, Andies f18 and on to all the other courses.

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 7:07 AM

  I would probably say King.com is the closest thing i have seen to this (my Mrs plays on there), they have lots of games and yes they are skill based, some of them highly skilled. they also have ranking type skill points, which means you are playing within your skill category against similarly capable people. Difference there is what you win you can cash out.

  I see WGT going one of two ways, either becoming subscription based online game with a modicum of minor prizes, or a full blown skill based gaming site with serious money on offer.

  I think it will be the latter, with the introduction of more games and categories of games such as 

  - 4 player, 10 player, 20 player, 50 player and 100 player ready go's  

  -4 ball matchplay challenge

  - alt shot MPC

  - raised cap MPC 

  - Blitz challenge

  - higher fee tournaments, much bigger payouts

   - some kind of progressive jackpot games centred around CTTH or Hole in one challenge eg - how many shots would it take to hole in 1 on Oakmont 8th? 100? 1000? 10,000? 250,000? If they charged 50 credits a shot and hit the green you get 25 back, hit inside 15 feet you get stake back, hit inside 10 get 100, inside 5 feet 200 and hole in 1 wins the progressive.

  - I think the game would attract a lot of attention if a weekly single play open paid out 10k to the winner, and I am not talking credits.

• ncviz 527 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 7:20 AM

  That's a pretty optimistic view you have there Kam. You could make the case for all the improvements this site has had, Prizes have regressed. I don't count sweepstakes, total stupid luck to get one of those.

  If you take away poker sites I really don't know of many of these sites that have made it big in the long run. Doubtful that I would be here to see even if it happened. But wish them well. Nothing would make me happeier to see WGT become like Pokerstars of the golf world.

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Wed, Feb 2 2011 7:50 AM

  I guess Terri, its less about optimism, and more a personal opinion of what WGT could do to attract and maintain a bigger user base.

  The WGT game is far superior to any other offering I have seen on the web, I personally love the game, although it has its frustrations. I for one channel all my winnings, vouchers etc into our CC tournaments, I am in this for the fun and competition, and as long as i can be self sufficient I am more than happy, I decided a while ago that I was happy with my Saab, so gave up shooting for the Maserati....

  Right now king.com has 103,000 users online, playing fee paying games, all of which provides a rake to the site, and it is not peak time. If they can become highly successful letting people play chuzzle, solitaire, bowling and pool with pretty limited functionality and realism, I am sure with the right drive WGT can become exceptionally successful.

  But as you say with current sweepstakes and prize regression, hats that never arrive and a crisis just sending out emails, I guess there is still work to do...