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Bracket fraud part 2? (@ the mods)

Sat, Sep 16 2017 8:25 PM (126 replies)
  • ZioMio
    4,680 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 8:57 AM

    xxxhogheadxxx:
    So you did see the history and it clearly shows I posted first as my eagle is recorded one day before theirs.

    Here is a question on posted time. Is it the start or end time?

    I ask this because, I know you can start a game then save to finish later. So if you tee off on your bracket then save, wait to see your opponents score before you finish, who posted first?

  • xxxhogheadxxx
    949 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 10:09 AM

    ZioMio:

    xxxhogheadxxx:
    So you did see the history and it clearly shows I posted first as my eagle is recorded one day before theirs.

    Here is a question on posted time. Is it the start or end time?

    I ask this because, I know you can start a game then save to finish later. So if you tee off on your bracket then save, wait to see your opponents score before you finish, who posted first?

    Good point ZioMio and one which i've wondered about.  

    Truth is, we don't know.  WGT doesn't have it stated in their rules.  

    WGT, if you are still reading this.  I'd be happy to rewrite, with a small team of fellow players, your tiebreaker rules (et al.).  Don't worry, I wouldn't charge you too much :)

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 1:04 PM

    In my mind posting means posting a score, so it's when you finish.

  • DAZZA501
    5,972 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 2:19 PM

    On the subject of brackets i've noticed today that all the wind & green speeds are screwed up. 1 round stated fast greens & low wind and i had tournament 12 greens & heavy wind. Another stated very fast greens & moderate wind & i had slow 7.1 greens and heavy wind.

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 2:20 PM

    xxxhogheadxxx:
    So you did see the history and it clearly shows I posted first as my eagle is recorded one day before theirs.

    I'm really not sure about this, just a possibility.  

    As I post this it will be around 2.15pm on the game clock (at least as I finish writing, who knows what moderation will do) and 10.15pm GMT.  I think for consecutive days gmt is used for all, but perhaps is our histories our days are dependent on our individual time zones.  So your today could run 8 hours longer than his and although you posted "the day before" it was actually after him (say him at 1am and you after 6pm the "day before", your own times). 

  • alosso
    21,072 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 2:56 PM

    PhiEaglesFan:

    In my mind posting means posting a score, so it's when you finish.

    True, but this won't exclude the timestamp from the start of the round to be saved.

  • xxxhogheadxxx
    949 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 6:20 PM

    I have to believe that a scorecard 'counts' when you sink the final putt. That is, you posted.

    Doesn't matter when you started the round.

    The tiebreaker rules state this (vaguely)...

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 11:07 PM

    alosso:
    True, but this won't exclude the timestamp from the start of the round to be saved.

    It does.  Posting is synonymous with recording.  The posting of a score occurs at the end of the round, typically to the handicap computer or tournament committee.  To be anything else would be a complete and utter bastardization of common golf terminology.

    I can assure everyone the "post" time is the instant you ding the last shot that went in the final hole.  It is the only marker they have for your last activity on the course.  Coincidentally, it also updates your "Last Played" stat.

  • alosso
    21,072 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 11:17 PM

    In theory, I agree, but sh*t happens, errors happen.

    Often enough, the wrong variable is taken here - see the faulty "CC XPs" on game finalisation, see the different putt numbers in the stats of one game. To be continued...

    Nothing prevents an error in any area, including time stamp confusion.

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Sun, Jan 31 2016 11:32 PM

    alosso:
    Nothing prevents an error in any area, including time stamp confusion.
    Right, that would otherwise require perfection, which we know is not possible.  However, that argument is based in speculation and assumption.  No supporting evidence.  I can't accept "they've made mistakes before" as the sole reason to launch an investigation.  No one is innocent of not making mistakes.

    ---

    Lots of folks speculating, no one scientificating.

    So instead of going back and forth about it, let's have someone start a CC tournament and find out.  Only takes two people to do it.  The last time I tested the posting rule it was correct as written.  Go test it out yourself and come back and let us all know what you've found.

    1.) Start CC Tourney

    2.) Player 1 tees off.

    3.) Player 2 tees of 5 min later, completes round, posts score, all pars.

    4.) Player 1 completes round few mins after Player 2, posts scores, all pars.

    5.) Player 2 wins.

    You can try the "posting in bracket play is different than posting in stroke play" angle, but that means you would be assuming the existence of TWO different "final step tiebreakers" for scores, at which point we're kinda moving away from the realm of what's realistic here.  There is no need for multiple "final step" tiebreakers when you have three(?) other card-based tiebreakers already in front of the last one.

    Could there be a bug with this?  Yeah, of course. 

    Is there one?  Most likely not.

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