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Bracket fraud part 2? (@ the mods)

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:43 AM

  PhiEaglesFan:

  alosso:

  Nothing prevents an error in any area, including time stamp confusion.

  Right, that would otherwise require perfection, which we know is not possible.  However, that argument is based in speculation and assumption. 

  Yours is, too. And, other than in court, we may conclude from former incidents to this issue.

• PhiEaglesFan 617 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:48 AM

  alosso:

  Yours is, too. And, other than in court, we may conclude from former incidents to this issue.

  My assertion is based only in fact, not theory or hypothesis.  I have physically tested this myself (no joke) and the rules were correct.  We're still getting to know each other, but trust me when I say I don't make these kinds of assertions on a whim.

  This isn't Schrodingers cat here.  I opened the box and fed the cat.  His name is Commander Fuzzyboots.

  Look, us going back and forth about what is fact and supposition at this point is counterproductive to the goal of finding out the answer, which can easily be accomplished with just two people and a country club.

  If anyone has reason to suspect the rules are incorrect then they do have the means to actually go and test it themselves to remove all doubt.  If by chance the rules do not conform with the expected behavior then that person should gather their data, submit a report to WGT and make a forum post so everyone knows it's either correct or incorrect.

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:49 AM

  DAZZA501:

  On the subject of brackets i've noticed today that all the wind & green speeds are screwed up. 1 round stated fast greens & low wind and i had tournament 12 greens & heavy wind. Another stated very fast greens & moderate wind & i had slow 7.1 greens and heavy wind.

  One of the 2 main reasons I stopped playing them. Random is one thing, but stating something and then having it actually be something completely opposite is another.

  The brackets are just pot-luck. Win, you might get paid for 1st. Play a low wind, fast green, and the only sure bet is you "won't" get the conditions stated. Some players like to use a different ball in high winds than they would in low or moderate winds.

  Random is good, but at least remove the conditions of the brackets so people will know going in, that it's a guessing game. 

   

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 5:04 AM

  PhiEaglesFan:

  If anyone has reason to suspect the rules are incorrect [...]

  This was reported in this thread, thus your test is one of two opposing results.

  I won't argue that these may be by random ;)

  Putting my tin foil hat on I guestimate that the time stamp may not even be programmed into the tie-break rules.

• Imasmrtazz 194 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:05 PM

  Going back to the original posting f this thread, the moderator was basically saying to the players who did not play.  What if for some reason, as say a massive snow and ice storm that knocked out power over a large area, that just happened to include the two finalists, making it impossible for them to play.  They both lose their credits?  Even though they beat the people to get to the finals?  No where else doe this make sense, well, except if you are dealing with a governmental beauracracy.

• cappiest 1,346 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 5:35 PM

  Correct. nowhere does it say that WGT has the right to keep players paid entry fees. Harsh word but essentially it is exactly what the forum started with....fraud.

  I dont care what anyone from WGT has to say as a response, its wrong and it needs to be fixed. Also maybe offer up a public apology that you made a mistake and kept peoples credits that did not belong to you.

  The bottom line with this is it doesnt matter if it happened once of hundreds of times...taking something that is not yours is just as wrong if it is done once or several times.

  Cant just say well you both forfeited....i think i will keep the credits because i can. You already took your cut so split the purse in a fair way.

  Explain to me why WGT feels they should get these credits...

• 949 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 8:31 PM

  cappiest:

  Correct. nowhere does it say that WGT has the right to keep players paid entry fees. Harsh word but essentially it is exactly what the forum started with....fraud.

  I dont care what anyone from WGT has to say as a response, its wrong and it needs to be fixed. Also maybe offer up a public apology that you made a mistake and kept peoples credits that did not belong to you.

  The bottom line with this is it doesnt matter if it happened once of hundreds of times...taking something that is not yours is just as wrong if it is done once or several times.

  Cant just say well you both forfeited....i think i will keep the credits because i can. You already took your cut so split the purse in a fair way.

  Explain to me why WGT feels they should get these credits...

  Look at this situation...

  *Two players make the final round.  Both, for some reason, cannot play the final round.

  a)Should the credits be split evenly between the two finalist?

  *Same as above but one player does not post a score, the other does.  

  b)Should the player that posted get both 1st and 2nd place credits?   or

  c)Should the player that posted only get 1st place credits?

  After a bit more thinking here, I'd agree with WGT that if you don't post a score, then you get nothing.  Why you say?  Because you didn't pay "The Man" in hits on your ball (let's assume you are not using a rock since we all know the probability of you making the final with those are very low).  

  so to answer my questions above:

  a) no

  b) yes - encourages players to post scores

  c) no - see (b)

  I'm not a lawyer (just an Electrical Engineer) so forgive my presentation of this scenario.

   

   

   

   

• liam91 3,130 Posts

  Mon, Feb 1 2016 11:44 PM

  sorry hog but i disagree

  i cant find anything in the rules that says you must post a score in a bracket final to be paid out.(WGT may find it now and prove me wrong)

  if 1 posts a score and 1 doesn't you both get paid out 

  if neither post a score no-one gets paid ....thats beyond my understanding

  if you got to the last 2 and reached the final and for some reason you cannot play. that doesn't give WGT the right to withhold the credits you have rightfully won by beating 3 other players to get there .

  you have paid your money to enter, WGT should pay the top 2 players in the brackets whether they post a score or not.

  It is not a 4 round strokeplay game where you need to enter a score for each round, it's a knockout competition ,if you knockout 3 players and reach the final you should be paid for doing so.

  Mike

• Vaibhav5viv 886 Posts

  Tue, Feb 2 2016 12:12 AM

  agree with liam91.. Once you do reach the final, the worst you can be is losing finalist.. So the least a finalist should get is 30%,which is for reaching there..

  Don't understand why a WD has to be treated any differently to the losing score which has been posted. They both lost.

  Final becomes like a MP game with 20% of credits as the pot(the 2 finalist already get 30% each for reaching final, semifinalists get 10% each).. Whoever wins gets the 20%, if the both WD, that'll be like a dropped game where they get their half returned.

  So essentially they get 40% each in that scenario.

   

• why9 907 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2016 5:56 PM

        well i supose this thread will just go away soon and Wgt  will just keep pocketing that 80% of the purse when the finalist don't play

        but that doesn,t make it any less wrong .... this non issue that wont be changed is equivalent  to stealing and thats the truth  the right thing to do here would be to payout if not to the finalist then to  the players that did finish  ,,,,,

      but  y'all just keep taking the credits that you have not earned and have no right to claim . the pennies you make there will well worth the hit you take to your reputation  ...

      o right games going down anyway no  wonder WGT cant find anyone capable of fixing bugs of putting  a world famous golf course like pebble beach out in under two years  . who would want to work for a company dishonest enough to  believe this is right  (*¿*)