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Faster greens than Champion in normal rounds

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Mon, Oct 31 2016 9:09 AM (59 replies)
  • BMX123
    631 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 12:00 PM

    x

  • Robert1893
    7,719 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 12:16 PM

    Sure. And then what happens you potentially end up with a situation like Shinnecock Hills. See below. You could end up with a course that becomes unfair and is more of a test of luck than skill.

    While luck always plays a bit of a role, the idea is to minimize its effect. In my opinion, faster championship greens will increase the role that luck plays without placing a greater emphasis on skill. 

    http://www.golfchannel.com/media/2004-us-open-shinnecock/ 

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:16 PM

    Robert1893:
    Championship greens are already real enough, for lack of a better way of putting it. 

    How would you know? Until they're your default speed and you're forced to play them every ranked round you will never know. Witness your last comment-players complaining that greens are too fast are not looking at reality.

  • lonniescott711
    4,206 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:24 PM

    In the cc settings there`s a green speed after champ  super fast . How much faster is this setting than champ speed ? If not that much faster maybe it could be the new speed . Off to my cc for a 24 hr, round on Kiawah to see .

  • BMX123
    631 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:29 PM

    x

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:29 PM

    lonniescott711:
    If not that much faster maybe it could be the new speed

    14 would be sufficient. It took a while to get proficient on 13 greens moving up from 12. 13 to 14 would have the same effect. The problem would be they'd probably be a lot easier to master but would definitely add a distinction to mixed tier play.

  • BMX123
    631 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:43 PM

    x

  • Robert1893
    7,719 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:44 PM

    YankeeJim:
    How would you know? Until they're your default speed and you're forced to play them every ranked round you will never know.

    Before I outline how I would know, let me again emphasize that I'm just offering my opinion. And that opinion is really as valid as anyone else's because I would guess that few of us really know how closely championship greens approximate real life conditions on the PGA tour. About the only people who would know are those who have played under tournament conditions.

    In any case, my opinion is based on a number of factors. First, I have played some tournaments with championship greens. While the number is not a lot, I have played enough to get a good feel for how fast they are.

    Second, the speed of the greens is a known quantity. Their speed has been stated multiple times in discussion fora. Simply with that knowledge, one could form an informed opinion, even if the knowledge is not perfect. Indeed, most opinions are formed with imperfect knowledge. 

    Third, I know how fast the greens are that I putt on. It's not that difficult to extrapolate from that to knowing how fast championship greens are. It's a simple process of taking what is known to inform what is not known. Basic empiricism. 

    And fourth, I've been on here over a year, and this is the first time that I've seen the argument suggested that championship greens do not get the game close enough to real life.

    Now, obviously, the last point is an argument from silence. But it seems to me, given how vocal this online community is about the shortcomings of the game, that the issue would have bee raised before now and people would have demanded changes. Now, maybe they've done that previously, and I missed it.

    Nevertheless, my point remains: I can have enough understanding or knowledge of how fast championship greens in order to make an informed opinion on them, even if I do not play them on a daily basis.

     

    YankeeJim:
    Witness your last comment-players complaining that greens are too fast are not looking at reality.

    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you mean by that comment. But I get it. We disagree. And that's fine. 

    Hit 'em straight and seldom! 

     

  • Robert1893
    7,719 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:46 PM

    BMX123:
    good watch

    Thanks!

    Best of luck playing. Keep it in the short grass. :-) 

  • turfsand
    1,773 Posts
    Sun, Oct 30 2016 3:14 PM

    precisely what, i'm sure, many have been thinking...

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