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Intentionally raising average

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sat, May 27 2017 10:18 AM

  Ran into a player today who obviously shoots high scores at random times so as to avoid tier promotion.  

  Understanding the reasoning why some would want to do it, was wondering...

  1) Does WGT officially do anything to these players, or is it just a part of the game.

  2) What does the community think of it

  Although I've never done it, I have to say it has its merits for those who do ok (ok i'd define as earns enough to pay for balls) at one tier, but yet wouldn't fair so well playing against the likes of fmags & sebicu seeing as there's no TL ready go's or brackets...or are there? Perhaps I've just missed them?  Does the site hide them from me because I can't play in them?  Anyway...

  ...know what I'm sayin'?

  p.s. I'm aware of saturation so sooner or later avg. will only go down, but one can certainly delay tier promotion.

   

• lonniescott711 4,206 Posts

  Sat, May 27 2017 2:20 PM

  I dont know Kavvz I do it to make the game loosen up and play easier . Once you play down your highest scores then you have to play down the next highest and so on . So for every 30 you now have to post a 29 to lower the avg . So then the game gets tighter and tighter .

  So then you go back and post some high scores and it makes the game play easier . I call it throwing the dog a bone . It works real well if you play a lot of credit tournaments or brackets  or to just back the vem up . Not sure though how long one can do this to avoid tiering up but it will always work to make the game easier to play .

• Edgey54321 547 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 3:34 AM

   

   

  lonniescott711:

  So then you go back and post some high scores and it makes the game play easier . I call it throwing the dog a bone . It works real well if you play a lot of credit tournaments or brackets  or to just back the vem up . Not sure though how long one can do this to avoid tiering up but it will always work to make the game easier to play .

   

  I may be wrong but as far as I understand it once you reach Saturation nothing you record over the average shown is counted therefore your average at saturation point remains static or reduces it does not move up again.

   

  The only way you can move an average up is when you have not reached saturation.

   

  I do not however understand the makes the game easier point, as no matter what you score or average you play at the level you are, just because you score average is high does not change the conditions

   

  Alan

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 3:50 AM

  lonniescott711:

  Once you play down your highest scores then you have to play down the next highest and so on . So for every 30 you now have to post a 29 to lower the avg . So then the game gets tighter and tighter .

  At the bottom of it, we need to post a <saturation> number of scores that form the <threshold> average. Anything else is irrelevant in the tiering business, and all the higher scores outside this pool fall into oblivion.

  lonniescott711:

  So then you go back and post some high scores and it makes the game play easier . I call it throwing the dog a bone . It works real well if you play a lot of credit tournaments or brackets  or to just back the vem up .

  Do we agree that those high scores do not contribute to average and tiering?

  Then, are you trying to hide your playing potential from the game with the illusion of "I play high scores"? I have the impression that this might work in one game but I'm critical if it might work between games(?)

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 4:13 AM

  (inverted order of quotes)

  Edgey54321:

  The only way you can move an average up is when you have not reached saturation.

  True.

  Edgey54321:

  I may be wrong but as far as I understand it once you reach Saturation nothing you record over the average shown is counted therefore your average at saturation point remains static or reduces it does not move up again.

  Not correct in detail. Some higher scores will count, too.

  Imagine scores of 60, 65 and 70 - a 65 average.

  Imagine this is a saturated average. Now, any score of 70 or higher won't change anything, 60, 65, 70 are still the valid pool.

  But some scores above the average still do count: Any score below 70, e.g. 67 - well above 65 - would modify the pool to 60, 65, 67, resulting in a 64 average. It's one of the "miracles" of the non-linear calculation of the saturated average: Scores higher than the average can cause a drop.

  Let's continue to the showdown:

  Imagine shooting a 59 and a 62. The pool will become 59, 60, 62, average 60.33. Let's say the threshold is 60, thus any 61 or lower will make it. In this situation, all the famous former scores that built your former averages, 70, 67, 65, 62 in this example, have become irrelevant as well as the intermediate efforts to lower the average to 65, 64, 60.33.

  What counts are the 59, 60, 61 only.

• HackWilson1930 1,437 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 4:16 AM

  To avoid tier advancement one has to avoid ranked rounds. Once the saturation point for a tier has been reached, any ranked round that is lower than highest score in the saturation pool, will lower the "average". The "average" can no longer be manipulated by "throwing" a round since the high score will not enter the pool.

  WGT does not use a true average to keep average manipulation at bay. Those in lower tiers who want to win credits in tournaments without advancing to a higher tier must play ranked rounds. Win several tournaments and the WGT throws out the required saturation number as well as the required average. Tier advancement is issued. To WGT, average manipulation to gain an unfair advantage, is a form of cheating so they put this unique way to handle "average".

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 4:21 AM

  let's assume a, ahem, "brand new" Legend has surfaced.

  Said new L has 500 RRs to play with, 700 if you count TL, until they go against the cream.

  Take just the 500 to keep it simple.  They will only advance in tier when 500 RRs are good enough to average at the threshold for advancement.  Now some will get to that L point with one of many accounts - All of which may have minimal activity shown. Could be practise or plain something else (leave it at that)

  There is no way some will waste many of those RR in games where they will not earn, and so they shoot high.

  Alternatively, they might be genuine players having a lark and maybe trying out a few things. Anyone who knows anything about this game will not look at average score too much for ability. Plenty of tee low average players who are frankly not v good at all....

  Some may well feel banging in some bad scores might loosen something up - If they feel it does then also fine.  Personally, I would not be looking too heavily toward that as a solution, but JMO.

• Edgey54321 547 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 4:30 AM

  Alosso

  There is a small movement around your average, when you record a score lower than the highest being used, I accept that, but overall it makes very little difference after you have played a few games more than saturation.

  The example proves that point but generally the total number of games to saturation is many more, when you shoot lets say 75 and your average is 71 and you are a Tour Master the highest score in your 60 can be 100 the difference it makes is 0.5 so yes higher than average score sometimes do lower your average, but no matter what they do not ever increase the average

   

  Alan

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 4:34 AM

  Saturation is v simple math.

  I got to L and shot 72 at St As.  As I struggled to come to terms with L I had several poor scores.  Slowly it all came under control, and finished the tier winning a monthly.  

  Thus when I got to saturation my average dropped like a stone.  

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Sun, May 28 2017 5:26 AM

  Edgey54321:

  There is a small movement around your average, when you record a score lower than the highest being used, I accept that, but overall it makes very little difference after you have played a few games more than saturation.

  It makes quite a difference when a player has saturated:

  Average will drop even if the score is higher!

  Thus, it's one of the significant markers to tell that someone has reached saturation (1). And, as a Legend, you may see the effect for quite some time when you had plenty 70+ scores on saturation.

  (1) The other being that a high score won't raise it.